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Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

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Because people all over the country can ALWAYS travel at 75 mph on the highway. Especially in say LA or DC. :rolleyes:

Living in California my entire life (5th gen) I can say without a doubt you are wrong. 75-100 mph happens quite a bit on freeways here. But you will get ticketed for it if you do it long enough. The CHP is now allowed radar, so it's not 1970 anymore. Vehicles with trailers are restricted in California to 55 mph. This naturally creates congestion on the freeways that does not exist in many states.

It doesn't matter what you drive. 75 mph+ has a huge amount of losses. You should see what 175mph does. Drain a tank in 20 minutes.

PS - You really need to change your screen name to antievadoption2017 since that appears to be one of your prime focuses in this thread. People without EVs read your constant negative EV comments. For every member on a typical site, there about 10 readers.
Just for the record, down by where I am the speed limit is 70. Folks normally do 80 (South of Woodbridge, to the I95/I295 interchange). Even in Hampton Roads (I264 for those keeping track) folks generally do 70 even though the speed limit is 55. Of course during rush hour times you are lucky if you average 40 mph... From Falls Church to Fredericksburg on Fridays can take 2-3 hours (for what is a 50 mile distance)...
 
Interesting cost analysis ... Tesla to break even on Model 3 at $41,000, says UBS based on cost analysis of Chevy Bolt EV

UBS used its cost analysis of the Chevy Bolt EV to assess the cost of the Model 3:

“The findings on the Bolt enable us to assess the profitability of the longawaited Model 3, Tesla’s entry into the mass segment. We estimate that Tesla will require an achieved selling price of ~$41k for the upcoming Model 3 to break even at the EBIT level. This is ~$6k above the estimated base price of $35k. As Tesla buyers are likely to order well-equipped versions (margins on the options should be ~50%), the required ~$41k threshold is likely to be well exceeded, in our view.”

Therefore, they think that the Model 3 will not be profitable unless buyers add at least $6,000 in options. That goes against what Tesla CEO Elon Musk has been guiding, which was
a 20% gross margin on an average sale price of ~$42,000. On the other hand, we have known for a while that GM was planning to lose money on the Chevy Bolt EV before ZEV credits from California and other ZEV states, but the UBS report now claims that it comes down to a loss of about $7,400 per vehicle. Here are their estimates for the Bolt EV and the Model 3:


 
Interesting cost analysis ... Tesla to break even on Model 3 at $41,000, says UBS based on cost analysis of Chevy Bolt EV

UBS used its cost analysis of the Chevy Bolt EV to assess the cost of the Model 3:

“The findings on the Bolt enable us to assess the profitability of the longawaited Model 3, Tesla’s entry into the mass segment. We estimate that Tesla will require an achieved selling price of ~$41k for the upcoming Model 3 to break even at the EBIT level. This is ~$6k above the estimated base price of $35k. As Tesla buyers are likely to order well-equipped versions (margins on the options should be ~50%), the required ~$41k threshold is likely to be well exceeded, in our view.”

Therefore, they think that the Model 3 will not be profitable unless buyers add at least $6,000 in options. That goes against what Tesla CEO Elon Musk has been guiding, which was
a 20% gross margin on an average sale price of ~$42,000. On the other hand, we have known for a while that GM was planning to lose money on the Chevy Bolt EV before ZEV credits from California and other ZEV states, but the UBS report now claims that it comes down to a loss of about $7,400 per vehicle. Here are their estimates for the Bolt EV and the Model 3:



As the Elektrek article points out, but doesn't emphasize, the Bolt and Model 3 programs are very different and basing Tesla's costs on GM's for the Bolt is a pretty inaccurate way of coming up with an estimate. GM has to amortize a higher percentage of the fixed costs into each car to even begin to get a return, and they have said they are losing money on each car sold. They also are outsourcing a huge part of the design and production of the car. LG Chem is making out like a bandit here at GM's expense.

Tesla is aggressively doing everything it can to get costs down. They are also planning on making the car in large enough volumes that they can amortize the fixed costs (like development and constructing the means to make the car) over more units.

I suspect Tesla will probably just about break even at the base price and their profits will go up from there. Over time Tesla will also be doing things to make production more efficient and reduce costs even further. They've done that with the Model S/X line and their gross profit per car is very high today.

I don't have the time to analyze their math and maybe they are more accurate than it looks on first blush, but my initial take is I think their numbers are pessimistic.
 
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@Beryl @callmesam

You honestly believe there are more 200+ mile EVs on the roads in the USA than all short range EV's combined? You are wrong.

You certainly can't believe that 70-130 mile EVs are constantly driving transcontinental, or that jet flight is uncommon. Or can you?

Or is it you have no technical opinions, but think that disagree is a great way to bury your head in the sand as to EV technology status today?

I'm thinking #3.
 
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@Beryl @callmesam

You honestly believe there are more 200+ mile EVs on the roads in the USA than all short range EV's combined? You are wrong.

You certainly can't believe that 70-130 mile EVs are constantly driving transcontinental, or that jet flight is uncommon. Or can you?

Or is it you have no technical opinions, but think that disagree is a great way to bury your head in the sand as to EV technology status today?

I'm thinking #3.

Huh?

I've been ignoring you so long, but the page loaded without any comments.

1. Who cares how many short range EVs there are? Anyone who owns a short range EV likely owns at least one other ICE vehicle.

2. I agree, it is RARE when a 70-130 mile EV drives transcontinental. But you know that many Tesla owners have driven transcontinental. And I know lots of ICE drivers who have driven transcontinental. What was your point?

3. Yes. Jet flight is common. Rocket flight is even becoming common.
 
Huh?

I've been ignoring you so long, but the page loaded without any comments.

1. Who cares how many short range EVs there are? Anyone who owns a short range EV likely owns at least one other ICE vehicle.

2. I agree, it is RARE when a 70-130 mile EV drives transcontinental. But you know that many Tesla owners have driven transcontinental. And I know lots of ICE drivers who have driven transcontinental. What was your point?

3. Yes. Jet flight is common. Rocket flight is even becoming common.

1) Apparently buyers. Especially globally.

2) More EVs in the US do not travel transcontinental than do by a wide margin. Even most Teslas do not although they are indeed capable.

3) More passenger miles are logged on jets than EVs by over 12:1. Something to think about.
536 people have been in space in the last 60 years. Common is perhaps not the right term. 24,000 people per year are killed by lightning, which is not considered common.
 
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1. Buyers didn't have a choice if they wanted an EV. With Model 3, they'll have something good for the money instead an overpriced mico-car.

2. See how you moved the goalpost . . . tsk tsk tsk. You can't drive a Bolt coast to coast. Or anywhere outside of 125 miles from home without massive range anxiety and compromises that make the trip 1/10,000. Whereas, I have 5 friends that have driven their Model S on the same trip. And I have dozens of friends that have done so by ICE. Just like I've driven ICE coast to coast 4 different times.

3. Tesla delivered 283M kWh by the Supercharging Network through Sunday. How many kWh has GM delivered with their extensive charging network? How about Ford's charging network? They had more CEOs today than charging stations. Same with VW. Same with Toyota.

Bolt is a cute city car. A 2nd car. Frankly a weird mobile. Sad.
 
You can't drive a Bolt coast to coast. Or anywhere outside of 125 miles from home without massive range anxiety and compromises that make the trip 1/10,000.
Coast to coast is true but VW's Electrify America subsidiary will fix that within a couple of years.

Anywhere outside of 125 miles from home without massive range anxiety? THBBFT!

I just got back this afternoon from an 1100 mile round trip to Los Angeles from San Francisco in my Bolt EV. No range anxiety....
 
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Coast to coast is true but VW's Electrify America subsidiary will fix that within a couple of years.

Anywhere outside of 125 miles from home without massive range anxiety? THBBFT!

I just got back this afternoon from an 1100 mile round trip to Los Angeles from San Francisco in my Bolt EV. No range anxiety....

Yup. I'll drive a hypothetical VW all over California in a few years. The rest of the country will take at least 5 years, given VW's proposed rollout of their network. Can't wait. I mean literally. I cannot wait for their bullshit.

But please enlighten me. Spin me a tale of worry-free charging in your Bolt.

And then tell me how you'd drive from Los Angeles to somewhere like Santa Fe, New Mexico? Or Boulder? Or Mt. Shasta. All trips I've made in the last 18 months.
 
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You can't drive a Bolt coast to coast. Or anywhere outside of 125 miles from home without massive range anxiety and compromises that make the trip 1/10,000.

I made a trip to Shenandoah National Park this past weekend in my Bolt. 306 miles round trip, so 153 1 way. Charged for free at the L2 station at the Park's visitor center. No range anxiety whatsoever. And I had all kinds of crap attached to the car. 1/10,000? Lol
No spinning required.
1. Leave home with fully charged Bolt
2. Arrive at campsite, set up shop.
3. Drive to charging station, plug in, then walk back to campsite
4. After several hours doing camping stuff, come back to a fully charged car, all ready for the return trip

Now you will be the one moving the goal posts now that I blew up your "Bolt is a cute city car that can only travel 125 miles" pigeonholing attempt.



 
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Coast to coast is true but VW's Electrify America subsidiary will fix that within a couple of years.

Anywhere outside of 125 miles from home without massive range anxiety? THBBFT!

I just got back this afternoon from an 1100 mile round trip to Los Angeles from San Francisco in my Bolt EV. No range anxiety....

May already be seeing the fruit of Electrify America. There been EVgo CCS-compatible stations installed next to Tesla Superchargers at multiple locations on the New Jersey Turnpike along i-95 this past week. Now my 320 mile drive to CT will be a piece of cake. But oh wait! The Bolt is just a city car with a 125 mile real-world range. I wish someone had told me that before I embarked on my multiple 150+ mile trips I've made! Lol
image1.JPG
 
But please enlighten me. Spin me a tale of worry-free charging in your Bolt.
Henry Ford said "pick any color you like, so long as it is black."
Jeff says "pick any long distance route you like, so long as it is SF to LA."

Of course Henry had a pretty good black whereas the SF to LA route is, to use Jeff's wording, "leisurely."
Joking aside, I don't know why Jeff keeps mentioning the future roll-out of CCS to people buying an EV now. Mention it when it exists, and faster than 44 kW.
 
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Yup. I'll drive a hypothetical VW all over California in a few years. The rest of the country will take at least 5 years, given VW's proposed rollout of their network. Can't wait. I mean literally. I cannot wait for their bullshit.

But please enlighten me. Spin me a tale of worry-free charging in your Bolt.

And then tell me how you'd drive from Los Angeles to somewhere like Santa Fe, New Mexico? Or Boulder? Or Mt. Shasta. All trips I've made in the last 18 months.

Santa Fe is a lousy way to Houston or Florida. I know this from lots of experience.

All vehicles have limitations, most have benefits (Yugo comes to mind as an exception).

Whenever you hear somebody who can't describe benefits, you are listening to a zealot. Ditto for limitations.

I'm going to widen your horizons. Tesla makes the finest EVs in the world.

However.

LA to El Paso STILL sucks after 9 years.

Don't cruise at 120 mph for extended periods on empty roads out west.

Towing enclosed car trailers probably isn't in your immediate future.

If your garage is small, or you must park in tight lots, you might have to move or get a new job, or learn to climb out the back hatch.

$28k is only going to get you a down payment, not a car.

That doesn't make a Tesla any less of a car, it simply has some limitations like all vehicles do.

The fact you can't see any purpose for an (autonomy-focused) urban car with 8 hours of city range, simply means you live in LA and have never seen a taxi before. The rest of the world is different.

I currently have no need for an interstate EV. I normally take a plane, or I have to tow a race car or pick up heavy machinery. But if I had to drive interstate in a car, I have a very comfy large car for trips. It can go 85 mph for hours up through the mountains (404hp 4300lb), with AC/heated massage seats, reclining rear seats, 4 individual climate zones, dual rear infotainment systems with wireless headphones. 120v power and work area in the rear along with window shades. Super quiet. All wheel steering (and AWD) for tight parking. Night Vision for deer country on moonless nights. And costs the same new as a Model S 75D RWD stripper, just more comfy and with more range.

That is not to say it's better than a Model S or X. It has different benefits and drawbacks. But one of it's strengths is long haul driving anywhere there is a road.

EDIT - Somebody who quotes hard fixed specs for the Tesla Model 3, yet scoffs at other future offerings would also qualify as a zealot.
 
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May already be seeing the fruit of Electrify America. There been EVgo CCS-compatible stations installed next to Tesla Superchargers at multiple locations on the New Jersey Turnpike along i-95 this past week. Now my 320 mile drive to CT will be a piece of cake. But oh wait! The Bolt is just a city car with a 125 mile real-world range. I wish someone had told me that before I embarked on my multiple 150+ mile trips I've made! Lol
View attachment 228097
Are those still limited to 30 minute charges per session?
 
May already be seeing the fruit of Electrify America. There been EVgo CCS-compatible stations installed next to Tesla Superchargers at multiple locations on the New Jersey Turnpike along i-95 this past week. Now my 320 mile drive to CT will be a piece of cake. But oh wait! The Bolt is just a city car with a 125 mile real-world range. I wish someone had told me that before I embarked on my multiple 150+ mile trips I've made! Lol
View attachment 228097
That's pretty interesting.

Given I can see two cables, I assume combo CCS/Chademo?

Any ideas on power capability?
 
Are those still limited to 30 minute charges per session?
Yes, although a few people claim to have used EVgo locations that didn't have the 40 minute timeout.

It's an outdated policy that might have made sense for 24 kWh packs but not 50+ kWh packs. As more people complain and more 50+ kWh cars hit the road the 30 minute timer policy will be changed. In the meantime, it's a significant annoyance but it doesn't stop anyone from traveling. Obviously, it's only an issue if you charge more than 30 minutes. I typically alternate 30 and 60 minute charges on EVgo so it's annoying half the time. My ~450 mile drive each way from SF to LA typically involves a single 60 minute EVgo stop.

I don't know of any other DC charge provider doing this so as more ChargePoint, Green Lots, and other sites come on-line there will be added pressure for EVgo to change. It's unlikely the VW's Electrify America will have that problem and they will be installing sites at around the same pace as the first years of Tesla Supercharger installations beginning later this year.