A new and quite positive review of the Bolt by Dan Neil in the WSJ:
Chevy Bolt: Meet the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle
Chevy Bolt: Meet the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle
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Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)
- Thread starter FredTMC
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US Buick sales don't really matter, as China sales dwarf them. 1.18 million Chinese Buick sales in 2016, up 19% from the previous year.
GM sells record 3.87M vehicles in China in 2016
Well, the paragraph they showed above the paywall to tempt me looked really promising.
Here are some snippets:
Buick's 2017 US-only sales exceeds all plug-in sales in the US combined. It's even higher than all plug-in US sales combined in all 12 months of 2016.
If Buick would have sold Bolts, who knows what would happen? EV's are a fraction component. 20k units a year might seem to be a good number if you are talking EVs, but not if you are talking sales. It's a blip.
We may soon find out since one of the 2 new BEV GM just promised within the next 18 months is rumored to be an upscale and perhaps slightly upsized Buick CUV based on the Bolt powertrain.
The poster suggested that it would have made a big different to US sales. But there's nothing about Buick's sales to suggest that it would be a big deal. Buick is not growing. Sales almost (but not quite) recovered to the same level as 2006, but they have essentially been flat for two years and will fall again this year. Audi will outsell Buick this year for the first time.
That does not have any effect on whether a new Buick model will sell or not. It is already proven that GM can pull in conquest sales with their Volt and Bolt offerings. In other words, the badge didn't sell the car, the car sold itself even against negative brand image.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I should note as I did elsewhere that selling the Bolt as a Chevy first then as a Buick/Cadillac is not the same as selling as a Buick/Cadillac first then as a Chevy. Doing the latter, people see the technology as trickling down. Doing the former means people see you as charging a premium for the badge (depending on pricing it may be a repeat of the ELR).
[Mod note: unapproved the post with entire WSJ Bolt article as text, as well as a post that quoted part of it. Links to publicly-accessible articles are fine, but re-posting it here in its entirety is a copyright violation and is against TMC's Forum Rules and Terms of Service]
If the Bolt sells itself then it won't make any difference in the USA making it a Buick. If brand matters then Buick's not going to help.
Not everybody thinks a Porsche is a VW. After many brands were dropped, GM is left with 3 premium brands in the US, a base brand. It has about a dozen brands total globally. I have no idea what the peak number was, but is certainly over 20 brands at one point. Olds, Pontiac, and Saturn were the most recent US dissolutions.
Buick has the highest age demographic of GM brands, and among all brands, only surpassed by Ford's Lincoln in avg buyer age. And you probably thought Cadillac/MB/Lexus had the oldest buyers, right?
What better market for an EV than the older demographic? Today, an EV with night vision, surround vision, FWD/REV AEB, ACC, SC, with a luxury interior and easy access, would probably appeal to older drivers, and since they are more affluent, the premium they pay for an EV is not as much as a factor.
For the older market, easy egress/access is important, simple to use controls instead of nested tree structure we see today, deluxe seating (due to surgeries, or back problems), quiet interior (easier to have conversations), night vision is very important, collision avoidance suite for 360° use, no servicing, no gas stations, are all big bonuses that aren't always important to younger buyers. When GM's AV tech is ready, the Buick AV would certainly be a solid choice for mature drivers.
It depends on the technology you are trying to sell. High Performance with a capital HP are expected to first appear in Chevrolet. Ditto for trick transmission, electric differentials, and... pretty much all really trick powertrains are derived from the Chevrolet Racing paddock. The 2018 common GM gas pickup/SUV engine is actually a grandchild of the 1997 Corvette. IIRC, the LS1 Vette engine has had variants from about 275HP to 650HP, but all the big jumps appeared first in the Chevy.
There is a 1-3 year lag when Chevy releases a HP powertrain, then it trickles down to other models, but these premium priced powertrains are not a cheap date.
Cadillac with non-Corvette powertrain - $46k. Add Corvette power and it's $86k. Full track pack about $100k.
Camaro with non-Corvette powertrain - $26k. Add Corvette power and it's $66k. Full track pack about $72k (this is only available in MANual, and has run the 'ring in 7m06s. It's a Ferrari Killer for those who know how to use 3 pedals, Ferraris have 2 only).
The fact the Chevrolet was the first to see the Voltec series of powertrains is unlikely to affect Cadillac/Buick/GMC buyers. At some point, since Chevrolet has it, Cadillac/Buick/GMC buyers will expect it to be there.
Sidebar - The ELR was problematic because people didn't bother driving one. It's not a Volt. The 2016 version remains the best 'green' coupes of it's time and is elegant in person. Do not confuse the 2014 and 2016 models (there is no 2015). They are significantly different in performance levels. The FWD 2016 ELR is more than 1 second quicker to 60 mph than the Subaru BRZ RWD 205hp 2800lb automatic track coupe (aka Toyota 86), but is actually elegant and comfortable and quieter. It has nearly 50% more battery range than a 2018 Prius Prime, and is nearly twice as quick, and roughly 7000% more classy. Nobody has mistaken an ELR for a drunken teenager's poorly modified fartcan Civic.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I'm just saying that practically everyone thought of the ELR as a Volt with a huge price increase for the badge. Although they improved the performance in the 2016 model and also dropped the price (as well as throw in a boatload of incentives), it was never able to escape from that image.
Of course it depends on the price difference. If it's almost nonexistent (like the Encore vs Trax) then it's probably going to do fine. If there is a huge gap, then they might see the repeat of the ELR.
You are going to see the mistake made with the CT6 PHEV. While is it priced reasonably for what it is, and has superior specifications to it's direct competition (extra large luxury hybrid sedans with night vision and rear luxury accommodations), it shares nothing at all with the Volt. Not looks, powertrain, size, performance, features, range, function, nothing.
I predict it will fail worse in the USA than the ELR did. Because just like the ELR, it won't ship with Super Cruise, but for different reasons.
Corrected for inflation the pricing is identical to the 2014 ELR.
But the Volt in China was $99k USD, and the CT6 PHEV will be under $70k from what I understand. It should sell well in China because it has over twice the range of the luxury PHEVs sold by other automakers.
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Almost. The CT6 PHEV does share the 2016-2017 Volt battery although they repackaged it into the trunk instead of down the middle of the interior.
Really? I find that hard to believe although I know nothing about the Chinese Volt (Buick Velite) pricing.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
The CT6 PHEV is going to have its own unique issues. People will have to get over the "made in china" aspect. GM is only projecting around 1000 units per year in the US. The ELR, GM internally projected around 3k or more (analysts projected somewhere in 2k range and GM internal sources said their projections were higher)
Cadillac ELR Sales Expected to be Around 3,000 Units Per Year By Analysts | Inside EVs
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I heard a loaded Volt was up to $99k USD, but this says it was only $78k?
Chevrolet Volt listed & priced in China - CarNewsChina.com - China Auto News
In any case the Buick "Volt" is $38.6k IIRC.
GM announces China version of hybrid Volt
Yeah, that sounds more realistic. I think there are some available subsidies that help shave the price further.
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