Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

As long as the specter of the GOP killing the fed tax credit looms over the market, there should be an increased urgency for EV buyers to lock in a deal before the clock strikes 2018 . As it's very likely not a single non-NDA Model 3 will be delivered to a "regular" person this year, if someone wants a 200+ mile, <$40k BEV, the Bolt is the only game in town that's available to purchase off the lot: the Bolt EV.
And even if the GOP does not succeed in killing the EV tax credit this year, they could always try again early next year, and make such a credit killing bill retroactive to 31 Dec 2017.

I wouldn't be surprised if average transaction prices for Bolts increases over the next 8 weeks, as demand for Bolts starts to outstrip supply as more people push up their purchase decisions to quality for the $7,500.

If the transaction price rises in any significant way, buying would be dumb unless you're exiting a lease.
Just stay in your current car and see what happens in the market. Give it a year or two and the Leaf will be out, plus other manufacturers will be dropping their BEVs on the market. On top of that, the ramping up of the ZEV credit requirements should have manufacturers dropping more money on their compliance cars.

 

[Jeff N]

Just because Jerry and Friends stabbed us in the back, there was DCFC before his admin promised EV support for California and before he halted progress on the VW EV project.

This seems a bit incoherent — I don’t know what you are talking about. Please elucidate.

The only part of that I think I may understand is the reference to “halted progress on the VW project” but that CARB approval was only delayed from late April until late July which is 3 months. Yes, annoying, but just a minor blip in the larger scheme of things.

And VW “might have gotten away with it if it weren’t for those meddling kids” at CARB who were instrumental in investigating VW’s fraud which is why California got a special 40% carve-out of the funds.

 

[gene]

Just because Jerry and Friends stabbed us in the back, there was DCFC before his admin promised EV support for California and before he halted progress on the VW EV project.

I have no idea what you are saying here. Please say it in English.

 

[McRat]

This seems a bit incoherent — I don’t know what you are talking about. Please elucidate.

The only part of that I think I may understand is the reference to “halted progress on the VW project” but that CARB approval was only delayed from late April until late July which is 3 months. Yes, annoying, but just a minor blip in the larger scheme of things.

And VW “might have gotten away with it if it weren’t for those meddling kids” at CARB who were instrumental in investigating VW’s fraud which is why California got a special 40% carve-out of the funds.

Actually it was 4 researchers (2 students, 2 professors) at West Virginia University working with only a $50,000 grant that discovered the VW emissions issue. CARB scientists were busy acquiring fake diplomas (Dr. Tran) and ignoring the issue.

CARB only rented out testing equipment to West Virginia University, they did not lift a finger otherwise.

It's November 2017. How much progress has California made to extend the EV Corridors they outlined in 2015? According to them, it's done!

"ZEV electric infrastructure in California has grown with substantial investments in the past several years, and accelerated investments are expected as new infrastructure developments emerge. More than 10,000 Level 27 and 1,500 direct current fast charger (DCFC) connectors have been deployed across California." - California Energy Commission 7/5/2017
>>>Note that the way they structure the document implies it's California that put in these chargers. It was not. They were local or private projects.<<<

How much have they spent?

"Cumulative program allocations for ZEVs as of June 2017 8 include:

• $80.1 million for electric vehicle (EV) charging infrastructure, which consists of:
o $6 million for single-family residential and private fleets.
o $31 million for corridor installations. o $16 million for commercial installations.
o $8.2 million for data collection of deployed infrastructure and vehicle usage.
o $15.2 million for pending award to provide EV incentives.
o $3.7 million for multiunit and workplace installations.

• $105.3 million for 60 retail hydrogen refueling stations and $12.8 million for ongoing operation and maintenance of 45 hydrogen refueling stations until adequate FCEVs are brought to market by automakers to support the stations.
• $10.0 million to support hydrogen refueling for public infrastructure, including testing and temporary refueling.
• $7.0 million to California Department of Food and Agriculture/Division of Measurement Standards (CDFA/DMS) for the development of hydrogen purity and dispensing standards for hydrogen and electricity. Also, $500,000 was provided to CDFA/DMS to operate the United States Department of Energy (U.S. DOE) Hydrogen Station Equipment Performance (HyStEP) device.
• $2.0 million loan loss reserve program with California Pollution Control Financing Authority for EV charger installation loans.
• $129.4 million to help California companies demonstrate zero-emission medium- and heavy-duty advanced technologies for trucks, buses, and freight movement. These projects, which are located in and provide benefits to disadvantaged communities, are critical to bring these technologies to market.
• $46.5 million in funding for start-ups and small manufacturers of advanced technology vehicles, components, and batteries to expand their plants and assembly lines.
• $9.75 million for ZEV regional readiness planning.
• $49.0 million to the CARB to support the Clean Vehicle Rebate Project."

- California Energy Commission 7/5/2017

http://www.energy.ca.gov/renewables/tracking_progress/documents/electric_vehicle.pdf

Having driven down two of the major "EV Corridors" recently, I can tell you they have not done anything.

Note also that the biggest chunk is for grants to private companies in disadvantaged communities to make mockups. Second biggest is Hydrogen Spending.

If California has done anything at all to improve EV charging in the last 2 years, they are certainly doing an excellent job of hiding it.

 

[McRat]

I have no idea what you are saying here. Please say it in English.

I have no idea what part you do not understand so here's the simplified version for you:

There has been no significant effort by the State of California in the last 2 years towards any EV infrastructure, and zero effort towards DCFC in particular.

• Do your homework.
• Do not believe the speeches.
• Drive the highways.
• Look at Plugshare.
• See what programs California offers to businesses to install EV chargers (nothing).

Governor Jerry Brown is great at making speeches. He is ineffective at EV adoption. He uses the money for political clout, not for charging cars.

 

[AndY1]

 

[bro1999]

Pretty good read. 2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV review: Is it the best electric car on sale?

One excerpt that sums up the Bolt very well:

"It’s a pretty simple car, the Bolt. It doesn’t really do anything a less-expensive Cruze hatchback can’t do, except for not burning gas. It certainly doesn’t offer anything along the lines of Tesla’s Autopilot semi-autonomous driving system; indeed, it doesn’t have a whole lot of onboard tech, at least not tech that’s visible to the user. It feels quick, but it’s not Ludicrous Mode quick -- if it’s fun to drive, it’s fun in a golf cart sort of way. From design to material choices, it doesn’t project luxury.

With the Bolt, you don’t have to deal with over-the-air updates that may enable or disable features. It doesn’t have fancy doors (or door handles) that may or may not work as designed. It doesn’t ask owners to be beta testers. Tesla owners wear their early adopter status as a badge of honor, and to an extent I get that, but the average driver -- of an EV or an ICE car -- doesn’t really care. The average driver, like the average computer owner, just wants something that works without a lot of effort. The Bolt doesn’t ask you to do anything other than plug every night.

Exciting? No, not really. Elegant? Absolutely.
.
.
Anyway, even if you have absolutely no interest in buying one, take any opportunity to give a Bolt a test drive. You’ll be impressed, but quietly. This doesn’t feel like a flash-in-the-pan attention-grabber, or an accessory for greenies, techies or green techies. It feels like a car. It just works."

 

[miimura]

I have no idea what part you do not understand so here's the simplified version for you:

There has been no significant effort by the State of California in the last 2 years towards any EV infrastructure, and zero effort towards DCFC in particular.

• Do your homework.
• Do not believe the speeches.
• Drive the highways.
• Look at Plugshare.
• See what programs California offers to businesses to install EV chargers (nothing).

Governor Jerry Brown is great at making speeches. He is ineffective at EV adoption. He uses the money for political clout, not for charging cars.

The CEC has issued grants for Corridor DC Fast Chargers. They have been in development since award for more than a year but none of them are installed yet. I don't know what the State can do to speed up the process. Here are the grants and amounts awarded.

GFO-15-601 DC Fast Chargers for California's North-South Corridors - Proposed Award $8,875,457 with $2,637,448 matching funds
GFO-15-603 DC Fast Chargers for California’s Interregional Corridors - Proposed Award $13,871,763 with $5,934,170 matching funds

I have mapped the sites in these grants based on the CEC's public documents. The map is here:
Future CEC DC Fast Charge Sites
Use the check boxes in the side bar to turn groups of sites on and off.

 

[McRat]

The CEC has issued grants for Corridor DC Fast Chargers. They have been in development since award for more than a year but none of them are installed yet. I don't know what the State can do to speed up the process. Here are the grants and amounts awarded.

GFO-15-601 DC Fast Chargers for California's North-South Corridors - Proposed Award $8,875,457 with $2,637,448 matching funds
GFO-15-603 DC Fast Chargers for California’s Interregional Corridors - Proposed Award $13,871,763 with $5,934,170 matching funds

I have mapped the sites in these grants based on the CEC's public documents. The map is here:
Future CEC DC Fast Charge Sites
Use the check boxes in the side bar to turn groups of sites on and off.

It is very difficult to use a "planned" EV charger.

If you look at the numbers I posted:

$134 million for H2 support.
$31 million for EV corridors.

Many H2 stations have been installed now. There are very few H2 cars.
None of the EV corridors have been started. There is a record number of EVs.
More EVs are sold in California in a week than all the H2 cars ever made that are on the road in the US.

2 years ago, there were about 3 actual functional H2 stations in CA, IIRC. There were a few more, but they weren't working.
Now look:
Stations Map | California Fuel Cell Partnership

Apparently it's much easier to build an H2 station for $2 million than a EV station for $215k.

Many folk on this site have told me I'm full of crap when I said Sacramento is going to put H2 first. And they still claim that today. The problem is they were wrong back then, and they are wrong today.

Get off your political bandwagon. It runs on H2 not electricity.

 

[McRat]

They have been in development since award for more than a year but none of them are installed yet.

Actually come December, it's 2 years since the final draft was released for the Corridors.

 

[Jeff N]

Actually it was 4 researchers (2 students, 2 professors) at West Virginia University working with only a $50,000 grant that discovered the VW emissions issue. CARB scientists were busy acquiring fake diplomas (Dr. Tran) and ignoring the issue.

Yes, I know you are obsessed with Dr. Tran and his diploma even though his report was subsequently reviewed and validated by other CARB staff with unchallenged credentials.

CARB only rented out testing equipment to West Virginia University, they did not lift a finger otherwise.

I think that’s untrue. The WV researchers measured on-road emissions and that resulted in VW’s fraud being initially detected. My understanding is that CARB subsequently spent a lot of time and effort investigating why those numbers were so high and why VW’s normal test cycle emissions were within legal limits. The investigation involved more testing, engineering evaluations, and many meetings with VW representatives ultimately resulting in the slow-motion unraveling of VW’s story and leading to their eventual capitulation and resulting massive fines and settlements.

CARB has a document dump page where they have been disclosing their internal documentation related to the VW investigation:

Public Records Related to VW Investigation

There has been no significant effort by the State of California in the last 2 years towards any EV infrastructure, and zero effort towards DCFC in particular.

Not true. CA has gone through the public workshops, requests for proposal, evaluation, and grant issuance process resulting in multiple grants for many dozens of DC charging installations along major highway corridors as shown on miimura’s excellent Google map overlay.

Prior to that round of funding, CA has already funded a lot of L2 charging and 60+ DC chargers.

Dual connector DC fast charger installations in California, funded as of 2014 and installed today:

3 fast chargers for the EV Project in San Diego.

20 fast chargers with South Coast Air Quality Man-agement District.

16 fast chargers with energy storage for Green Charge Networks.

10 fast chargers with U.S. Green Vehicle Council on Interstate 5 and Highway 99 corridors.

10 fast chargers at a plaza in Encinitas with Corridor Power.

1 fast charger at the Los Angeles State Historic Park.

 

[Jeff N]

Dual connector DC fast charger installations in California, funded as of 2014 and installed today:
3 fast chargers for the EV Project in San Diego.

20 fast chargers with South Coast Air Quality Man-agement District.

16 fast chargers with energy storage for Green Charge Networks.

10 fast chargers with U.S. Green Vehicle Council on Interstate 5 and Highway 99 corridors.

10 fast chargers at a plaza in Encinitas with Corridor Power.

1 fast charger at the Los Angeles State Historic Park.

Well, they say that 68 DC chargers have been installed as of March, 2017 but not all of the ones I listed above are part of that. I’m verifying some of them.

The charging plaza in Encinitas sounds great with 10 DC charging stalls, a lounge for drivers with snacks and 24/7 staffing. It doesn’t exist yet, but the city council in August approved the lease for the parking area which is being carved out of an overflow city parking garage area downtown.

 

[miimura]

Actually come December, it's 2 years since the final draft was released for the Corridors.

Just today, the first Corridor Fast Charge site has appeared on Plugshare.

CEC CORRIDOR TARGET DCFC and L2 | Redding, CA | Electric Car Charging Station | PlugShare

 

[miimura]

Well, they say that 68 DC chargers have been installed as of March, 2017 but not all of the ones I listed above are part of that. I’m verifying some of them

The 10 US Green Vehicle Council units are of dubious utility. They are 25kW single CHAdeMO chargers limited to something like 55 amps. There is no L2 backup at most or all of those sites. I would personally route around them due to the high probability of getting stranded or seriously delayed. Luckily the State only spent $300k on those. Unfortunately, the ChargePoint award for the I-5 corridor between Sacramento and the LA basin is similarly sparse and redundant DCFC is not in the plan. At least they are putting a L2 station at each site in case the DC unit is inoperable. If ChargePoint has any common sense, they will install more than one DCFC since the site will have the electrical capacity.

 

[McRat]

Just today, the first Corridor Fast Charge site has appeared on Plugshare.

CEC CORRIDOR TARGET DCFC and L2 | Redding, CA | Electric Car Charging Station | PlugShare

I stand corrected.

It is interesting there is >2 year old DCFC CCS right next to it. Probably why I didn't notice.

 

[McRat]

Yes, I know you are obsessed with Dr. Tran and his diploma even though his report was subsequently reviewed and validated by other CARB staff with unchallenged credentials.


I think that’s untrue. The WV researchers measured on-road emissions and that resulted in VW’s fraud being initially detected. My understanding is that CARB subsequently spent a lot of time and effort investigating why those numbers were so high and why VW’s normal test cycle emissions were within legal limits. The investigation involved more testing, engineering evaluations, and many meetings with VW representatives ultimately resulting in the slow-motion unraveling of VW’s story and leading to their eventual capitulation and resulting massive fines and settlements.

CARB has a document dump page where they have been disclosing their internal documentation related to the VW investigation:

Public Records Related to VW Investigation


Not true. CA has gone through the public workshops, requests for proposal, evaluation, and grant issuance process resulting in multiple grants for many dozens of DC charging installations along major highway corridors as shown on miimura’s excellent Google map overlay.

Prior to that round of funding, CA has already funded a lot of L2 charging and 60+ DC chargers.

View attachment 258963

Dual connector DC fast charger installations in California, funded as of 2014 and installed today:

Strangely enough, I can't get any funding for my business for an EV charger, heck, they won't even assist with items they used to cover like LED lighting.

I will need to research their claims. Is it co-op? Are they counting all DCFC and L2 systems regardless of who pays?

Sacramento did allow the CPUC to switch small businesses over to Demand Metering this July which eliminates DCFC or even L2 charging for those businesses.

A 50kW charger would cost me $866 a month for connecting it, plus .17 kWh for actual charging.

4,000 residential installs? Did they install yours? They sure didn't help me with mine. That number is suspiciously small for California.

 

[Jeff N]

The 10 US Green Vehicle Council units are of dubious utility. They are 25kW single CHAdeMO chargers limited to something like 55 amps. There is no L2 backup at most or all of those sites. I would personally route around them due to the high probability of getting stranded or seriously delayed. Luckily the State only spent $300k on those.

Agreed. They are also quite spendy at $0.59 per kWh plus a $2.95 session fee. Also, I noticed one Tesla driver claimed one of their chargers didn’t work with the CHAdeMO adapter.

Unfortunately, the ChargePoint award for the I-5 corridor between Sacramento and the LA basin is similarly sparse and redundant DCFC is not in the plan. At least they are putting a L2 station at each site in case the DC unit is inoperable. If ChargePoint has any common sense, they will install more than one DCFC since the site will have the electrical capacity.

I think those sites are required by the grant contract to be pre-constructed with a second charger pad and conduit together with a transformer pre-sized to support the second charger being a next generation 125 kW ChargePoint Express Plus unit.

 

[Jeff N]

Just today, the first Corridor Fast Charge site has appeared on Plugshare.

CEC CORRIDOR TARGET DCFC and L2 | Redding, CA | Electric Car Charging Station | PlugShare

According to ChargePoint it is up and running now with a single 50 kW charger. The last car that charged there was a BMW i3.

It’s a little spendy though. It apparently is using their “Express Plus Group Corridor” pricing policy which is $0.30 per kWh plus $0.10 per minute which they helpfully suggest is roughly equivalent to $5.25 for 15 minutes. On a Bolt EV that’s very roughly like driving a Prius on $5 gasoline or $0.10 per mile or driving a conventional car at 30 mpg on $3.30 per gallon gasoline. Not great but not terrible either. Maybe better in the future with more competition.

This is the first (?) of some 70 locations being constructed with California Energy Commission grants. According to ChargePoint, they “were funded for $3.74 million in early 2016, and the CEC funded an additional $9.27 million for the next 54 sites in December 2016.”

 

[miimura]

According to ChargePoint it is up and running now with a single 50 kW charger. The last car that charged there was a BMW i3.

It’s a little spendy though. It apparently is using their “Express Plus Group Corridor” pricing policy which is $0.30 per kWh plus $0.10 per minute which they helpfully suggest is roughly equivalent to $5.25 for 15 minutes. On a Bolt EV that’s very roughly like driving a Prius on $5 gasoline or $0.10 per mile or driving a conventional car at 30 mpg on $3.30 per gallon gasoline. Not great but not terrible either. Maybe better in the future with more competition.

This is the first (?) of some 70 locations being constructed with California Energy Commission grants. According to ChargePoint, they “were funded for $3.74 million in early 2016, and the CEC funded an additional $9.27 million for the next 54 sites in December 2016.”

Assuming it's a 125 amp charger it should be less than $10 per 30 minute session. I find that reasonable compared to the EVgo Flex plan which is $10.95 per 30 minute session. It should also run for as long as you need, as opposed to the EVgo units.

 

[Jeff N]

Assuming it's a 125 amp charger it should be less than $10 per 30 minute session. I find that reasonable compared to the EVgo Flex plan which is $10.95 per 30 minute session. It should also run for as long as you need, as opposed to the EVgo units.

Yes, it’s loosely similar. My older EVgo subscription is for $0.10 per minute and no session fee so it’s $3 for 30 minutes. The current subscription plan is now $.20 per minute and no session fee so $6 per 30 minutes. My old subscription fee is $14.95 per month but it is now $19.95 per month for new subscribers.

EVgo chargers are now remotely restartable via their website or smartphone app. Even though it still times out after 30 minutes you can now restart it while you are at the restaurant....