I’m sure it’s a trip to the dealer....
I recently asked about the lack of OTA and they didn’t want to say anything about it.
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Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)
- Thread starter FredTMC
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- bolt chevy Electric Vehicles review
I recently asked about the lack of OTA and they didn’t want to say anything about it.
My crystal ball says OTA updates will be coming to the Bolt in 4 weeks or less. Real world time, not Elon time. Save this post.
Whether the above recall could be taken care of via OTA update, I'm less certain.
There is a recall for wipers potentially getting stuck in cold weather. The dealers don't have an official fix from GM yet. From the description it could be a problem with the wiper software and not require a hardware change, but we'll see.
Canadian dealers cannot deliver new Bolts until the issue is resolved. (Well, they can make deliveries as long as they don't mind being fined).
Canadian dealers cannot deliver new Bolts until the issue is resolved. (Well, they can make deliveries as long as they don't mind being fined).
ALL 2017 Bolts getting recalled for BMS software update.
GM issues software update for Bolt EV battery problem
Well this was fast....
GM issues software update for Bolt EV battery problem
Just a coincidence of timing, I’m sure.
Update: this software update is intended for all 2017 Bolt EVs.
This is a problem that has already been solved. Mechanisms to encrypt payloads, verify checksums, validate flashed images, rollback firmware revisions, etc.... are well established. It's how 100's of millions of embedded devices are updated all the time.
Except that:
1) The rollout would likely target only the subset of cars affected.... they aren't going to send a battery fix intended for 30,000 Bolts to somebody's Silverado.
2) If you do need to apply some sort of larger global fix, nothing prevents you from staging and batching it.
I'm referring to litigation. If a remote flash causes 1:100,000 GM cars to require towing to the dealer, there can be a class action suit. It's not a big risk to Tesla. Yes, the tech is out there and it works. But the failure level needs to 0, even with the stupidest possible owners, intentional disruption, and Acts of God such as lightning. It's not like you could sue Tesla for $10,000,000,000 and have the lawyers collect a check. You could sue GM though.
VW and Toyota are the two biggest car companies, and the most successful. OTA reflashing is well-known off-the-shelf tech.
They are still waiting just like GM is. I think everybody wants to see what happens in the first lawsuit.
Courts are run by lawyers. Politicians are mostly lawyers. Lawyers do not want tort reform. So that's how large businesses with deep pockets must play the game. And why car prices are not going down.
ℬête Noire
Active Member
Yeah, the fact that the standard dealership contract (and a few state laws) preclude GM directly servicing customer vehicles aftermarket has no impact on this? That it doesn't interfere with even modest dabbling in it with limited scope to provide a "bullet-proof" solution, or in a test product that is suggestive of being applicable *cough*Bolt*cough* because there's competition and some customer expectation building for it in the market segment for it *cough*Tesla*cough*?
I mean, the battery failure rate here on the Bolt is already up over 1:100,000 and where are the class actions?
Yeah, the fact that the standard dealership contract (and a few state laws) preclude GM directly servicing customer vehicles aftermarket has no impact on this? That it doesn't interfere with even modest dabbling in it with limited scope to provide a "bullet-proof" solution, or in a test product that is suggestive of being applicable *cough*Bolt*cough* because there's competition and some customer expectation building for it in the market segment for it *cough*Tesla*cough*?
I mean, the battery failure rate here on the Bolt is already up over 1:100,000 and where are the class actions?
VWs and Toyotas are not sold at dealerships in some countries. They have no OTA ability yet.
They are bigger, more global, and perceived as more technically advanced than GM.
I can (and do) reflash my own cars. Most reflashes are done during the warranty period when service of all kinds are free.
Some cars never need a reflash.
It cost the auto industry roughly $22 billion a year to do service center reflashes.
I simply don't buy the grassy knoll school of thought concerning OTA updates. I believe intelligent people run all these companies, and they don't do things just to spite their customers.
And yes, GM makes more than just Bolts.
scottf200
Well-Known Member
You are talking about design issues. OTA on the Tesla's have apparently been designed well as if they fail they almost always recover. There have been rare case of them not. Also they roll out OTA in stages to catch any edge cases early. When things are solid then they do mass OTA release every few months.
I don't think GM has the infrastructure. No way they could trust OnStar to do this as they have proven to many that they are unreliable in software (many complaints on GM-Volt.com as an example)
Is almost good enough? For some companies it is. GM is tested a truck for 11 million miles before releasing it.
I've had OnStar since it was first released about 15 years? ago.
It's been in 1-2 dozen of our vehicles. Other than switch over from analog, which was painless, I've had extremely few issues, and literally used it thousands of times all over the US, about 38 states.
The internet is often populated by folk who do did not read the manual, refuse to ask for help from OnStar, and assume something is broken. Like an NFG who is put on a IBM PC, and he can't make it do something. "THE COMPUTER IZ BUSTED!!" No wonder Abu asks if he turned the power on.
scottf200
Well-Known Member
It is working great for Tesla. One of the fantastic features of the Tesla's I have owned. I've taken my Volts in many times to the dealer after scheduling appt. The download the software to a USB and then insert the USB in my car. I have dropoff/pickup/time wasted issues with this process!!
I'm not talking about pushing the button and talking to a human or other trivial things. I was referring to their *EV tracking software for the Volt. It is awful. It misses data, slow to respond, has had a LOT of downtimes, often doesn't work, etc.
You are referring to a free upgrade to some GMs to support either Android Auto or Carplay.
I simply don't get as many updates as you do in the exact same vehicles. Some of my vehicles have never had an update. Some I've reflashed 50 times with different tuning flashes in a single dyno session. Heck, some of my equipment has NEVER had a reflash ever in 20+ years. In fact MOST of my electronics that support updates have never had one.
I guess it boils down to whether you believe constant unpredictable updates are cool or not. A customer is on the phone and wants data off a piece of lab equip. I boot it, and it instantly kicks into Windows Update Upon Update Upon Update. So I tell the customer I'm a jerk who can't manage both electrical costs and Microsoft screwups together, and in the next few hours I will call with his data.
You get a call from the hospital (or your alarm company) that you must get there immediately. You run to the car at 2am ... And it says PLEASE WAIT - DO NOT TURN CAR ON OR OFF. Property loss? Chance to say goodbye to a loved one? Unimportant compared to putting up a new user interface screen that has more ads on it.
And if you know anything about 1980-2018 computer reflashes you know for a fact things can go wrong. Yes, I have 2 EEPROM reflashable precision lab machines from 1980 that have never been reflashed. The code was correct when written.
But nobody seems to be able to answer why Tesla is the only auto company in the world who has heard about OTA updates, even though they predate the Roadster. VW, Toyota, Mercedes, BMW, Ford, Fiat/Dodge, Subaru, etc, etc, have all just found out 15 years later that OTA two way communications and reflashing is a possibility. My 2004 had the capability, but we believe vandals broke into the car and installed it.
scottf200
Well-Known Member
No several bugs and 'recalls'. I have an '11 & '16. One of my kids has a '12 (or '13). A popular dealer applied software fix/update now on the older Volts is because GM didn't account properly for battery degradation so they are reprogramming a module for that so you don't go into Propulsion Power is Reduced (PPR) mode.
Network speeds are much faster now-a-days plus cheaper. This should be obvious compared to many years go. I use to work from home occasionally on the 9600 baud modem. 14.4 was a great improvement
. And that stuff was hardwired not OTA!I have not seen a USB dongle required for anything other than an entire Infotainment Stack reflash. The dealer tool is now directly connected to the internet, it's no longer Tech2, it's MDI.
ie- 2013 never needed a dongle flash.
2016 received a free optional dongle flash to allow Android Auto support which was not an advertised feature. I hear the option is pretty expensive on a Tesla?
2017 is over 1 year old and has never been reflashed.
Wifi is older than you think, but the first OTA updates to cars were done via cellular networking. This was pre-Roadster.
ie- 2013 never needed a dongle flash.
2016 received a free optional dongle flash to allow Android Auto support which was not an advertised feature. I hear the option is pretty expensive on a Tesla?
2017 is over 1 year old and has never been reflashed.
Wifi is older than you think, but the first OTA updates to cars were done via cellular networking. This was pre-Roadster.
scottf200
Well-Known Member
There are Tesla cars that are getting OTA via cellular network today. They don't have wifi where they park (as an example condo). Cellular networks today are much faster than they were years ago. My Volt's have gotten USB stick updates. I had to problems recently. One they updated a module to stop the PPR on my degraded battery and the other GM tech told them to reset the code and send me on my way. The code showed up again the next day and they then replaced 1 section of my battery.
My post was about a completely different recall. The GM Canada code is N182148180. AFAIK there is no official fix in place yet.
It concerns the windshield wipers sometimes stopping in cold weather. I guess it isn't considered as serious an issue in the States, but here dealers aren't allowed to sell new Bolts until it is fixed.
scottf200
Well-Known Member
This seems to blow at least 1 theory out of the water.
Rancho Cucamonga is 1200' ASL and Vegas is 2000' ASL
You must cross two mountain ranges, Cajon at 3800', and Mountain Peak at 4,700'. High temps, low temps, headwinds, high speeds make this a thirsty route.
Tesla used a P85 to make the trip by hypermiling with AC off at very low speeds.
Your average driver in a Bolt drove 70 mph with the AC on and ended up with about 246 miles worth of range.
Many folk estimated about 1/3 less range than that for the Bolt EV, and that GM lied. Even after the press test showed GM underestimated range.
Rancho Cucamonga is 1200' ASL and Vegas is 2000' ASL
You must cross two mountain ranges, Cajon at 3800', and Mountain Peak at 4,700'. High temps, low temps, headwinds, high speeds make this a thirsty route.
Tesla used a P85 to make the trip by hypermiling with AC off at very low speeds.
Your average driver in a Bolt drove 70 mph with the AC on and ended up with about 246 miles worth of range.
Many folk estimated about 1/3 less range than that for the Bolt EV, and that GM lied. Even after the press test showed GM underestimated range.
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