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Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)
- Thread starter FredTMC
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The rendering of a Bolt concept shown in the InsideEVs article is credited to "kdawg" who is a frequent commenter there. It's a nice piece of artwork but it's not the actual concept car that GM will be showing. According to at least a couple of original articles including Detroit News, the Bolt will be somewhat larger than the Volt and will be a "family car" hatchback but smaller than the Model S with an EPA range of at least 200 miles.
The batteries would be made at LG Chem's factory in Holland, Michigan. I recall that plant, which was itself built in 2 years, has room for expansion if needed. LG Chem is obviously a big battery maker and know how to quickly expand or construct new factories, if needed, and I'm sure Michigan would be more than happy to help them to build whatever they need quickly.
I think GM was also targeting 2017 to roll out their Ultra Cruise highway autopilot feature.
As others have pointed out, the main thing missing in this picture is a national network of fast charging stations to enable interstate travel. I think the CCS plug standards support 90 kW today and I recall there is a placeholder but unpublished 200 kW specification extension planned for the future. They should consider creating a consortium funded by GM and the other CCS adopters like BMW, VW, and MB who may be contemplating larger battery vehicles by 2020.
I'm still inclined to probably pay a little more and get a model 3 but if GM delivers on this in 2017 and the model 3 is delayed then I can easily see myself leasing for a couple of years. For now it's fun to watch some real competition spin up in the larger battery EV category.
The batteries would be made at LG Chem's factory in Holland, Michigan. I recall that plant, which was itself built in 2 years, has room for expansion if needed. LG Chem is obviously a big battery maker and know how to quickly expand or construct new factories, if needed, and I'm sure Michigan would be more than happy to help them to build whatever they need quickly.
I think GM was also targeting 2017 to roll out their Ultra Cruise highway autopilot feature.
As others have pointed out, the main thing missing in this picture is a national network of fast charging stations to enable interstate travel. I think the CCS plug standards support 90 kW today and I recall there is a placeholder but unpublished 200 kW specification extension planned for the future. They should consider creating a consortium funded by GM and the other CCS adopters like BMW, VW, and MB who may be contemplating larger battery vehicles by 2020.
I'm still inclined to probably pay a little more and get a model 3 but if GM delivers on this in 2017 and the model 3 is delayed then I can easily see myself leasing for a couple of years. For now it's fun to watch some real competition spin up in the larger battery EV category.
If the Bolt becomes viewed as a County car vs being a City car, then that in itself will constitute progress. One could shop the whole metro area and still get back home with a Bolt.
The sexified model could be called the Black Lightning.
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The sexified model could be called the Black Lightning.
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That's what everyone says. My EV hasn't been appreciably less maintenance intensive than any of my ICE cars.
Nissan I am sure does have the same carrots and sticks, but are they using them? Why should we assume Nissan is doing everything it possibly can to promote fast charging?
CliffG
Member
I'm surprised that no one mentioned the most interesting part of the WSJ article:
"The pack for GM’s new vehicle could be built in LG Chem’s Holland, Mich., plant, where the Volt batteries currently are made by the same supplier. That plant would have a capacity to build about 60,000 Volt battery packs, or 20,000 of the larger packs for a new EV, or a mixture of the two."
So 45,000 Volts annually means only 5,000 Bolts can be made. No plans announced for additional supply. Also, the Bolt has 3x the battery size of a Volt which makes sense - just under 60kWh.
It will be interesting to see if the Bolt has a positive gross margin - I suspect that it does not and production will be limited. LG Chem's ability to match Tesla's pricing has not yet been shown, so the rest of the car is likely going to be very spartan.
"The pack for GM’s new vehicle could be built in LG Chem’s Holland, Mich., plant, where the Volt batteries currently are made by the same supplier. That plant would have a capacity to build about 60,000 Volt battery packs, or 20,000 of the larger packs for a new EV, or a mixture of the two."
So 45,000 Volts annually means only 5,000 Bolts can be made. No plans announced for additional supply. Also, the Bolt has 3x the battery size of a Volt which makes sense - just under 60kWh.
It will be interesting to see if the Bolt has a positive gross margin - I suspect that it does not and production will be limited. LG Chem's ability to match Tesla's pricing has not yet been shown, so the rest of the car is likely going to be very spartan.
The Volt concept was shown in January 2007 and wasn't sold until 4 years later ( starting in December 2010, but really 2011 )
That timeline would put the Bolt out to 2019. Will the Bolt be faster to market?
GM is a household name, and that may have some negatives with it but there is reason to believe that GM will always be there to service and maintain the car. For one, they are "too big to fail". Many potential Tesla consumers still may fear the long term viability of their car if Tesla were to go away.
GMs deep pockets would let them rapidly deploy fast chargers if they wanted to. They could use a combination of dealer locations and more useful locations.
Dealers that don't want to participate could have the embarrassment of a Chevy fast charger a few blocks away.
GM can sell and service in all 50 states. Expect them to highlight this advantage constantly.
That timeline would put the Bolt out to 2019. Will the Bolt be faster to market?
GM is a household name, and that may have some negatives with it but there is reason to believe that GM will always be there to service and maintain the car. For one, they are "too big to fail". Many potential Tesla consumers still may fear the long term viability of their car if Tesla were to go away.
GMs deep pockets would let them rapidly deploy fast chargers if they wanted to. They could use a combination of dealer locations and more useful locations.
Dealers that don't want to participate could have the embarrassment of a Chevy fast charger a few blocks away.
GM can sell and service in all 50 states. Expect them to highlight this advantage constantly.
I'll repeat: capacity can be added quickly.
LG Chem has MOUs with multiple manufacturers for 200-mile BEVs in 2016 or 2017. They're clearly setting up to ensure they can scale up and get economies of scale if they can hit their technical targets.
Quickly is still 2-3 years from the word go. And that hasn't come yet. I don't believe the majors have significant volume targets at this point, more feeler targets as they wait for both battery chemistry and signs of real demand (in their metrics) for BEVs. Most of the real efforts from them are towards PHEVs.
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
Folks, don't forget about the mistake that Nissan and others have made: putting their chargers at dealerships.
For longer distance travel, the very fastest this car would be able to fill up would be about 1-2 hours. Aside from the fact that this might require significant electrical additions to each dealership, you're still stuck with the fact that people don't really want to spend that much time at a dealership.
Unless they decide to put stations up like Tesla has done with the Superchargers, this probably will be intended to only be a "county" car.
For longer distance travel, the very fastest this car would be able to fill up would be about 1-2 hours. Aside from the fact that this might require significant electrical additions to each dealership, you're still stuck with the fact that people don't really want to spend that much time at a dealership.
Unless they decide to put stations up like Tesla has done with the Superchargers, this probably will be intended to only be a "county" car.
I tend to agree with you. I still think that TM GF will yield lower cost batteries due to economies of scale in the first few years. GM and others could catch up within ten years. This is what Elon wants... Accelerate the adoption of EVs
Regarding superchargers: I think GM could build a network for themselves fairly quickly and cheaply. It's not complicated as we've seen from Tesla SC deployment.
Bottomline: Tesla is probably cost advantaged with Model 3 up to five years from now. Furthermore, GM won't be focused on profitability on the Bolt in the near term.
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I don't see it as a mistake. They have the dealerships, so adding chargers to them would cost far less than building a SC would, and there would be almost no red tape to go through. That doesn't even take into account the fact that there would then be a significant amount of charge points in a short time.
As for spending time at a dealer, tesla has chosen good places for their chargers but there are very few I've come across that id want to spend any decent amount of time at (so far my exception would be the one at the mall in MD).
I love Tesla too (usually), but let's not immediately dismiss other options just because it's not provided by or done how Tesla would have done it.
From the outside, you won't know when the word go comes. The car itself is probably at least 2-3 years away. They can have everything ready when the car launches if they choose.
The only thing you will be able to see from the outside will be if they break ground on charging facilities. But even then, they could build a hundred of them and nobody will know what they are until they turn them on and advertise. If they wanted to be stealthy about it, they could install all the infrastructure but save the box with the plug until the last day.
dhrivnak
Active Member
Sorry to say but servicing and maintenance has been far more on my Tesla and conversions than any ICE I have had in the past 32 years. Tesla has been great about fixing things but even the annual maintenance is more than I paid for a transmission rebuild on a past truck with 200,000+ miles.
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Not sure how you see capacity being added in less than two years. Obviously no one has taken on building a battery plant on the scale of the Gifgafactory before. Even when the will is there in the future, it's a massive undertaking, whether at one location as Tesla did with GF or multiple locations to build same capacity, which was the capacity of all lithium ion plants in the world combined in 2013. Tesla/Panasonic are spending 6 years on this from planning to full capacity... perhaps someone else can go somewhat faster, but under 2 years (and on the first attempt at such a scale)?
Perhaps most importantly, one such plant would potentially take 0.5% of the global vehicle market off the table for Tesla (500K vehicles out of 100 million unit market projected for 2020)... I think we are talking DOZENS of Gigafactories before Tesla's growth is impacted. The earliest I see a negative impact on Tesla is the 2030s. As Elon has said, there's plenty of room here for lots of manufacturers.
It would be interesting to see Chevy licensing/partnering with Tesla for the supercharger network. If the supercharger map predictions for this and next year are accurate, it would be a very compelling idea for an EV manufacturer attempting to roll out a medium-long range EV in 2017...
It could be equivalent to a Model S 60 kWh when they were first rolled out with 90 kW charging. There is a 90 kW CCS specification which they are almost certain to support on a 200 mile car even if at a reduced rate lower than 90 but higher than 50 kW.
anticitizen13.7
Not posting at TMC after 9/17/2018
The problem with placing chargers at dealerships is that the dealerships may not be located along common long-distance driving routes. The location of the chargers is at least equal in importance to the charging speed of the devices.
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I strongly dislike GM for numerous reasons involving product reliability and safety. I also have strong ties to Honda, so anything GM is like Michigan visiting Ohio State for a game.
ItsNotAboutTheMoney, I've certainly seen one of the German manufacturers (think it was Audi) talk about a 200 mile BEV in 2018, some others sometime between 2018 and 2020 (all in the Model S/X price range). Now we have GM... so maybe two close to 2017, perhaps making about 40K vehicles between the two of them. Do you know of anyone talking 2016? Anyone other than possibly Audi or GM before 2018?
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