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Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)
- Thread starter FredTMC
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- bolt chevy Electric Vehicles review
Maybe I can finance that ...
Edit: I don't understand. Why does Tesla want a One Thousand Dollar deposit for filling out a credit application? That can't be right ... I'll have to look more into this.
Followup: Ok, I sent an email to their financing team with that simple question. Let's see how this goes. There are $50K models around me.
Edit: OK. I'm moving this to another thread. Questions abound.
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According to GreenCarReports, the Bolt battery is manufactured in South Korea rather than at the Michigan plant that makes the cells for the Volt and Spark EV. I don't know anything about LG's Korea battery factories. This could mean there is more flexibility on battery production than if the cells were made in Michigan.
santana338
Member
So why is the Bolt so slow? 0-60 in "less than 7 seconds" and top speed of 91 MPH? Is GM cheaping out on the motor and inverter?
jeffro01
Active Member
Range, range, range... It's likely how they are getting to the 200 mile window... The cars aerodynamics aren't likely as good as they could be and keeping the power down will close the range gap.
Jeff
Bolt 2017: More ev range than the tesla s60 for half the price?
Tesla has no charging network where I live maybe the Bolt will sell here...
GM has had years to install EV chargers at every dealership, they had the chance to blanket the country with chargers. Two here have them but they say Volt use only, or $30 for other EVs.
Tesla has no charging network where I live maybe the Bolt will sell here...
GM has had years to install EV chargers at every dealership, they had the chance to blanket the country with chargers. Two here have them but they say Volt use only, or $30 for other EVs.
Battery cell pricing was announced at $145/kWh, but also level at that price through the end of 2018.
Chevy Bolt Battery Cells = $145/kWh, New Chevy Volt With Autonomous Driving | CleanTechnica
Battery pack pricing is likely 25-35% higher, or around $190/kWh. Tesla is likely already paying cell prices around $150/kWh and that price is expected to drop further.
The other big difference is that the Model 3 has to use the Tesla Supercharger network and will be designed accordingly. The Bolt does not and crippled L2 DC charging is an extra cost option.
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Permanent magnet motor... makes it difficult to add power, and likely lower efficiency at higher power output. And yeah, GM is likely breaking even on cost, so a higher output inverter would be more expensive. Most people buying this vehicle won't care, this is already substantially better than the competition (Ford Focus Electric, e-Golf, Leaf v1.5). It's on par with the i3 which many people think is more than fast enough.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
60kWh is in line with what I expected for something comfortably above 200 miles EPA. I felt all the others were low balling it with the 50kWh estimates. Similarly I don't expect the Model 3 to be 50kWh. Keep in mind that the usable will be less in either case, so you can't just use an optimistic Wh/mi and do math that way.
The Spark EV should give an upper bound range (smaller and lighter at 2900 lbs). It has 82 miles EPA and a 19 kWh pack. Works out to 259 miles on 60kWh. The Bolt is 3600 lbs (700 lbs heavier), larger, uses wider tires (215/50R17 vs 85/55R15 front, 195/55R15 rear), so expect lower than this.
Lower bound would be the Leaf at 84 miles EPA on a 24kWh pack. Gives 210 miles on a 60kWh.
The Spark EV should give an upper bound range (smaller and lighter at 2900 lbs). It has 82 miles EPA and a 19 kWh pack. Works out to 259 miles on 60kWh. The Bolt is 3600 lbs (700 lbs heavier), larger, uses wider tires (215/50R17 vs 85/55R15 front, 195/55R15 rear), so expect lower than this.
Lower bound would be the Leaf at 84 miles EPA on a 24kWh pack. Gives 210 miles on a 60kWh.
You do realize that $30,000 is significantly less than $50,000, don't you? A person who can't afford a $50,000 car could possibly afford a $30,000 car.
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Mass market is the economic class, not the numbers.
Interesting feature story by Wired on Bolt and GM: http://www.wired.com/2016/01/gm-electric-car-chevy-bolt-mary-barra/
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
Why are you using 225V?
At my house it will be 240V (I often see 239 to 245 but I'll use 240V for easy math).
At businesses it will be 208V.
They are probably doing 32A x 240V for 7.68KW gross and calling it 7.2KW net (about 93.75% efficiency)
igotzzoom
Active Member
Yes. This is an issue. My mother lives in the Bay Area. I mapped out a hypothetical EV road trip from Orange County to Silicon Valley in a Bolt. 101 is doable. It's densely-populated enough, and there are enough fast chargers that it could be done without much drama, it appears. I-5 is another issue altogether. Tesla was out front in strategically locating a couple of chargers there making the trip feasible. If you have a J1772 car, you're screwed on I-5. You'd have to pack a whole backpack full of adapters, and hope you have some EV-friendly RV parks along the way. It seems there are a few, but it's a far sketchier proposition than 101.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
http://www.wired.com/2016/01/gm-electric-car-chevy-bolt-mary-barra/
michaelwb just posted this above as well.
It sounds like GM wrote this article but gives a lot of background. The authors even states about he isn't sure GM can make a profit off of this car right away but it didn't matter as the rest of GM can float them. Tesla can't come out with a model that doesn't make money.
michaelwb just posted this above as well.
It sounds like GM wrote this article but gives a lot of background. The authors even states about he isn't sure GM can make a profit off of this car right away but it didn't matter as the rest of GM can float them. Tesla can't come out with a model that doesn't make money.
The Bolt might be the first EV consumer friendly car but there are still a lot of open questions?
How will EPA rate this car? 200 miles? 170 miles?
How does the battery hold up ? Will it lose 30% range first year?
How will GM handle long trip charging?
Will they sell the car in large quantities or very limited?
They way the car looks. It that going to sell well?
I think it will sell like the Leaf in my opinion. May be slightly more because of the current Leaf owners might be switching to the Bolt.
How will EPA rate this car? 200 miles? 170 miles?
How does the battery hold up ? Will it lose 30% range first year?
How will GM handle long trip charging?
Will they sell the car in large quantities or very limited?
They way the car looks. It that going to sell well?
I think it will sell like the Leaf in my opinion. May be slightly more because of the current Leaf owners might be switching to the Bolt.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I noticed that too. But it's not out of line given NMC is less energy dense than the NCA Tesla uses. The strategy was supposed to be to eliminate liquid cooling in order reduce overhead weight, but GM decided to keep it (which I would say is a good decision in order to avoid the Nissan thermal debacle). There was a lot of speculation on GM using direct expansion cooling for the Bolt (basically using refrigerant directly), but it turns out incorrect. The other interesting point is the cells are oriented in "landscape" instead of "portrait" like the Volt, likely to reduce cell height (and eliminate the tall "tunnel").
It is quoted at 160kW peak power from a 60kWh pack. 2.67C discharge rate which isn't impressive. The S60 is ~240kW (4C) and NCA isn't an power dense chemistry in the first place (the Leaf pack can do 200kW from 24kWh or 8.33C).
I'm worried what this will mean for charge rate limits. The quoted 90 miles of EPA range on a 30 minute charge implies 50kW charging limit, which means an under 1C charge limit. I would hope this is not chemistry limited or this would have implications down the line for some of the other promised vehicles (like the Porsche Mission E).
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Title is pure hyperbole. I would say it will be the first affordable 200 mile EV on the market if it comes out on time, but not the "first true mass-market electric car". If you go by the volume and price, the Leaf already took first a long time ago. The Bolt is looking at ~30k annual worldwide production, which is on the same order as the Leaf had been selling at for years already, so they certainly can't claim first in the general case.
And it might not beat Tesla (or Nissan) to the first mass market 200 mile EV either (if the volume criteria is stricter for "mass-market", say 100k units per year), in the same way that the Insight came before the Prius, but the Prius was the one that reached mass volume first (and still holds that position).
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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
As I put in another thread, if it's economic class, the Leaf beat GM a long time ago to the first mass-market EV.
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