Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

[techmaven]

I belive the NMC chemistry is a bit better when it comes to charging speed and durability than NCA. So it shouldn't be difficult for the car to do supercharging as well as the Model 3 or better. Provided they are willing to pay Tesla for access; otherwise they're stuck with CCS.

Actually, while NMC can take c-rates around 2 for charging, they do not usually have the cycle life of NCA. Of course, that's a generalization and each product's specific engineering choices makes a lot of difference.

So yes, at 3x 18kWh = 54 kWh and it can theoretically charge at 108 kW (2 c-rate). We'll see if who is willing to shell out the big bucks for 100 kW CCS.

 

[JRP3]

That is, of course, no car with a battery that big except the Tesla Roadster can get away without it.

We've done it for 6 years, and will continue to do so with an even bigger battery.

I think he means any car selling into the market now. There was no DC quick charging when the Roadster was built.

 

[ecarfan]

Chevy Bolt. 200 mile range for $30k base price

WSJ: GM to release the $30,000 Chevy Bolt electric vehicle in 2017

The most interesting part of that article is this quote from GM exec Mark Reuss:

"If you are a slave to monthly sales, you will give up your long-term vision of what you think the future will be,” he said. “And we did that [with the EV1]. We had the first electric car. And we didn’t follow it up. Think of where we would be today if we hadn’t done that.
And I remind people who weren’t in the company or are younger. I say, we are not going to make that mistake again."

That statement indicates a significant shift in GM's strategy about EVs. Reuss is admitting that GM screwed up with the EV1 and should have continued producing and improving EVs.

While the Bolt is unlikely to be as as sophisticated a car as the Model 3, if it is priced at no more than $35K, seats five, and can go up to 200 miles on a charge and has some form of DC charging, it will be a competitor. And that's a good thing.

 

[jerry33]

But for the record... I think it more likely that GM would go with SAE Combo and roll out their own network of stations, which will probably all be at dealerships and therefore half of them will not work at any time, and the other half will not accessible when people need them.

That's what I think will happen too.

 

[bxr140]

Chevy won't use Supercharging or have any access to the Tesla network. At this point, it's not in either GM or Tesla's interest to do so--GM doesn't want to give Tesla a win on the standard war, and Tesla doesn't want to give up a big competitive advantage..

While I believe you are correct that GM and Tesla will likely not settle on SC access for the Bolt, I believe the failing will be GMs hubris.That said, I really believe is in the best interest of both parties to pursue this.

GM owners gets near turnkey access to what will at that point be a near comprehensive and by far the industry leading charging network--the lack of which still is a bain in the present day for many Tesla owners. With such a low volume its not cost effective for GM to build a network just yet, and among other things, if they tag on to the SC network they don't need to go through the growing pains that Tesla has.

For Tesla the cash helps the network for sure, but more importantly it validates Supercharging as the industry standard. It could be the catalyst for other car makers to adopt SC (and as the 'early adopter' GM could probably negotiate a good deal) which will ultimately create the almost-everywhere network needed for widespread EVadoption. Oh, and also the network we're all dreaming of.:biggrin:

 

[jerry33]

The most interesting part of that article is this quote from GM exec Mark Reuss:

"If you are a slave to monthly sales, you will give up your long-term vision of what you think the future will be,” he said. “And we did that [with the EV1]. We had the first electric car. And we didn’t follow it up. Think of where we would be today if we hadn’t done that.
And I remind people who weren’t in the company or are younger. I say, we are not going to make that mistake again."

That's one way to rewrite history.

 

[JST]

I think he means any car selling into the market now. There was no DC quick charging when the Roadster was built.

Right--and of course if Tesla built the Roadster today, it would have DC quick charging.

The availability of DC quick charging is almost certain given that the Spark EV has it as an option.

 

[ecarfan]

That's one way to rewrite history.

Well, he does admit that GM had an EV and then got rid of it, and if they had continued to pursue EV development GM would be in a much better position today (my interpretation). He's admitting GM screwed up.

 

[MonroeSS]

Don't forget that according to the same WSJ article GM was hoping to sell 60K Volts per year, probably because this was the goal that would get them enough credits. This, obviously did not work so good, and even after the price cut their sales were not even near the set goal (18.8K last year). So they were forced to go back to the drawing board to come up with the Bolt. Once again this will allow GM to get ZEV credits they need, and more fully utilize their battery facility which is now underutilized.

Your comment is spot on except that the Volt or ELR are not eligible for ZEV credits A 50 mile all electric range is the minimum and even that only gets them 1 ZEV credit. A 200 mile BEV gets them 4 ZEV credits. GM needs about 800 a year and even if chap gas prices cause truck/suv sales to explode by 50% they would only need about 1200 ZEV credits a year (200 to 300 Bolt sales). I fully expect GM to only sell the bare minimum needed.

 

[deonb]

The Bolt will do 200 miles for under $35,000?...that's Usain...:biggrin:

Except it won't.

Update from “sources”: $30,000 price tag is now considered to be the number after the $7,500 credit is applied

From:
http://insideevs.com/200-mile-30000-electric-chevrolet-bolt-expected-to-debut-at-2015-naias/

 

[Krugerrand]

Except it won't.

Update from “sources”: $30,000 price tag is now considered to be the number after the $7,500 credit is applied

From:
http://insideevs.com/200-mile-30000-electric-chevrolet-bolt-expected-to-debut-at-2015-naias/

Ahahahaha! *not that there won't be other clarifying information coming out in days, weeks and months to come*

 

[scaesare]

The most interesting part of that article is this quote from GM exec Mark Reuss:

"If you are a slave to monthly sales, you will give up your long-term vision of what you think the future will be,” he said. “And we did that [with the EV1]. We had the first electric car. And we didn’t follow it up. Think of where we would be today if we hadn’t done that.
And I remind people who weren’t in the company or are younger. I say, we are not going to make that mistake again."

That statement indicates a significant shift in GM's strategy about EVs. Reuss is admitting that GM screwed up with the EV1 and should have continued producing and improving EVs.

While the Bolt is unlikely to be as as sophisticated a car as the Model 3, if it is priced at no more than $35K, seats five, and can go up to 200 miles on a charge and has some form of DC charging, it will be a competitor. And that's a good thing.

Agreed. As EV proponents I think we should view this as a positive development...

 

[schonelucht]

Update from “sources”: $30,000 price tag is now considered to be the number after the $7,500 credit is applied

GM is copying Tesla marketing communication till the smallest details.

 

[JST]

Except it won't.

Update from “sources”: $30,000 price tag is now considered to be the number after the $7,500 credit is applied

From:
http://insideevs.com/200-mile-30000-electric-chevrolet-bolt-expected-to-debut-at-2015-naias/

This is not surprising, but I think GM (and Tesla) needs to be careful about counting the rebate in the price of their mid-range vehicles. There are going to be a fair number of customers for these vehicles who won't have enough tax liability to qualify for the full rebate.

 

[andrewket]

Chevy Bolt. 200 mile range for $30k base price

I've often wondered if tesla should have used a separate brand for the super chargers. It likely would have made it easier for other manufacturers to sign-on to supporting the network. If I'm GM, having my customers pull up to a tesla branded facility is a tough sell. It will be a constant reminder that their car is a second class citizen.

 

[FredTMC]

Agreed. As EV proponents I think we should view this as a positive development...

agreed. It's a very good thing. I want wide EV adoption for a variety of reasons.

But I take exception to the Media writing click bait articles with 'tesla killer' in the title of Chevy Bolt news articles

Model 3 is in the "compact executive" luxury car segment along with BMW 3 series and Audi A4. Bolt isn't in this segment. Tesla overall makes "premium" electric vehicles. Chevy isn't in this premium space. It's downmarket.

Maybe Bolt will sell better than Volt. We will see. Not sure GMs strategy to get lots of batteries. If they intend for Bolt to sell 100ks of units per year, they'll need to partner/build a big battery factory. I wouldn't be surprised.

Supercharger-style (fast level 3) networks aren't difficult to build. I don't see this as an impediment for GM.

 

[scaesare]

agreed. It's a very good thing. I want wide EV adoption for a variety of reasons.

But I take exception to the Media writing click bait articles with 'tesla killer' in the title of Chevy Bolt news articles

Model 3 is in the "compact executive" luxury car segment along with BMW 3 series and Audi A4. Bolt isn't in this segment.
Tesla overall makes "premium" electric vehicles. Chevy isn't in this premium space. It's downmarket.

Maybe Bolt will sell better than Volt. We will see. Not sure what strategy is for GM to get lots of batteries. If they intend for Bolt to sell 100ks of units per year, they'll need to partner/build a big battery factory. I wouldn't be surprised.

Supercharger-style (fast level 3) networks aren't difficult to build. I don't see this as an impediment for GM.

Yeah, I don't trust the media to get the comparisons right either. Nor do I really expect GM to necessarily handle it as a product correctly, despite the fact that their recognizing it's a valid market segment to target is an overall positive development. Who knows, maybe they'll come to their senses about all that "EREV" nonsense too.

While agree it's not likely a direct competitor to the Model 3 in terms of class, it is a competitor in the very limited medium/long range BEV space in that price segment.

 

[RobStark]

Supercharger-style (fast level 3) networks aren't difficult to build. I don't see this as an impediment for GM.

Every major legacy OEM could have built a Tesla business. As a car line,sub brand or brand.


It cost ~$400M to get Model S to market?

340 current Superchargers at an average price of $200k is $68M.

GM spends $1B per year on advertisements.


As always it is the desire to do so. ROI. Satisfying Wall Street Analyst.

VW,Toyota,GM et al can do but won't. Until they are being crushed by Tesla in the marketplace.

 

[skdave]

First thing that comes to mind - state of the art:

Now all they need is a nut to buy it. Nuts and bolts / high tech.

 

[FredTMC]

While agree it's not likely a direct competitor to the Model 3 in terms of class, it is a competitor in the very limited medium/long range BEV space in that price segment.

True, but at the $30k+ entry level price point, there's no comparison between Bolt and Model 3. Virtually everyone on the west coast would get the Tesla even though the Bolt would be more nicely equipped for a given price point. Case in point, the old big three cars don't sell well here. Folks buy imports. Trucks/SUVs are a different story - more balanced market share.

- - - Updated - - -

Every major legacy OEM could have built a Tesla business. As a car line,sub brand or brand.


It cost ~$400M to get Model S to market?

340 current Superchargers at an average price of $200k is $68M.

GM spends $1B per year on advertisements.


As always it is the desire to do so. ROI. Satisfying Wall Street Analyst.

VW,Toyota,GM et al can do but won't. Until they are being crushed by Tesla in the marketplace.

Totally agree. Kudos to GM for entering the long range BEV market!