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Chevy Bolt a "Commuter Car?" Not Available Until April? Help!
- Thread starter MSEV
- Start date
Some more details on the bolt / Cruz connection. I think that the similarities in the design between the two will be a negative impact on the bolt given the wide price difference.
Once again GM letting the accountants run things.
Payne: Should Chevy Cruze Hatch worry the Bolt Hatch?
Once again GM letting the accountants run things.
Payne: Should Chevy Cruze Hatch worry the Bolt Hatch?
One thing that truly puzzles me about the "over 200 miles" of an EV being insufficient range for anything but commuting is how other eco-friendly transportation systems are perceived:
Anybody carpool with 4 or more occupants more than 200 miles a day last week?
Anybody ride public buses to work more than 200 miles a day?
Subways?
Ground level rail?
Elevated rail?
A Commuter Only EV, the Battery-Only EVs with 80 miles of range seem to be what is necessary for most people with a philosophical problem with extended range EV's.
A 238 mile Battery EV is considerably longer range than necessary for nearly all commuters, by a landslide.
If you are Destination Traveler, ie - You are a vacationer, or visitor, you suddenly add all the L2 and NEMA 14-50 into the mix. These charge in at 25 miles per hour. This gives the Nebraska Destination Traveler a 217 mile radius with a Bolt.
If you are business traveler? You fly of course. Even 200 miles unless you hate having a life outside of work. 200 miles is typically 3 to 4 hours if you see no serious congestion.
Anybody carpool with 4 or more occupants more than 200 miles a day last week?
Anybody ride public buses to work more than 200 miles a day?
Subways?
Ground level rail?
Elevated rail?
A Commuter Only EV, the Battery-Only EVs with 80 miles of range seem to be what is necessary for most people with a philosophical problem with extended range EV's.
A 238 mile Battery EV is considerably longer range than necessary for nearly all commuters, by a landslide.
If you are Destination Traveler, ie - You are a vacationer, or visitor, you suddenly add all the L2 and NEMA 14-50 into the mix. These charge in at 25 miles per hour. This gives the Nebraska Destination Traveler a 217 mile radius with a Bolt.
If you are business traveler? You fly of course. Even 200 miles unless you hate having a life outside of work. 200 miles is typically 3 to 4 hours if you see no serious congestion.
ICE models are cheaper than EV models. True.
Will you stop by my house and fill my cars up with gas each night for me? Thanks!
Another point. Everybody is introducing new ICE compact hatchback models. Are saying that American companies should not?
Should Ford also abandon PHEV's or EV's if they are hatch designs? What about the Europeans and Asians?
And should companies sell diesel hatchbacks? Or high performance models? Or sluggish hypermiler models?
Last, should all of them be the same price no matter what is on top the tires?
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Another article written by the Detroit media. You would think they would be the biggest advocate for a car like the Bolt, but it seems they are still stuck in the old world thinking.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
The point of the article seems to be that people will see the Bolt as a Cruze hatchback equivalent and then balk at paying the $15k premium. The problem the author has isn't with the Cruze hatchback, but rather the Bolt. For EV enthusiasts, we'll happily pay the premium to get the advantage of home charging, but they are saying the general market won't. If GM positioned the Bolt a bit differently (for example as a Cadillac), they might be able to avoid those kinds of comparisons.
BluestarE3
Active Member
I can see them trashing Tesla, but when they turn on one of their own for offering a longer range electric car, that just reveals how entrenched and out-of-touch they are with impending changes. It seems they view automotive electrification as more of a threat to their status quo than the existence of a disruptive outsider.
EarlyAdopter
Active Member
One line from that article irks me in particular:
"Trouble is, the loaded Premier I tested came in at a pricey $29,435. That’s still less than an entry-level Bolt minus federal welfare – but a grand more expensive than the first-team VW Golf GTI Sport in my driveway."
I find it pretty rich that anyone would refer to the $7,500 federal EV rebate as "federal welfare" when writing about any GM car. Funny they don't mention the $25 Billion in federal welfare GM received to bail it out, $11 Billion of which the tax payers will never see back, despite GM being profitable again.
That $11B would pay for 1,500,000 EV rebates. Or 2 Gigafactories and enough Superchargers to blanket the continent.
Look, I don't have a problem with the government deciding to bail out GM. I just have a problem with people, "journalists" in particular, selectively ignoring subsidies that benefit them and attacking ones that don't (or more correctly, choose to not take advantage of).
The article says "at least until they ship 200,000 of them". But I thought that limit was *per manufacturer*, not per vehicle. If I'm right, they're over halfway there already: Top-Selling Chevy Volt Crosses 100,000 US Sales Milestone - HybridCars.com
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Give the guy a break -- the rule has only been around ~ 5 years
diamond.g
Active Member
I think the Bolt and the Volt should have been Buick brand cars. That would allow GM to charge more and it not be as jarring, plus maybe they would have use even more upscale interior.
Upscaling the interior added ~350lb (10%) to the mass of the Volt when the upfitted the ELR. And added $30k to the sticker for the 2016 (final) year.
But I do agree that they should have not been branded Chevrolet. Opel USA or Buick would be my choices in that order.
The Volt and Bolt should have offered with Sport Editions. The Volt can easily get a power bump by increasing the EV motor output and allowing more series output with the ICE. Volts might be slightly series hybrids, but do not really behave that way in real life. The peak output is same whether both ICE and EV motors are going. It uses to the EV power buffer to augment the ICE output, not enhance peak performance. It is always capped at 120kW. The ELR is not. Using the driveline from the 111kW (2011-15) Volt the ELR produces 174kW in series mode. 50% more power.
But part of performance is weight, and part of the price is materials. It's a balancing act. Deluxe interior, poor performance, higher price.
The #1 complaint I hear about Volts is the price. Driving the price up is not the answer.
diamond.g
Active Member
Which is why I said it should have been a Buick. Giving the chance for a more plush interior would have been expected. The price differential wouldn't be such a bitter pill to swallow. I have no clue what GM was thinking with the ELR, for the price...
The_Mike
Member
I for one am very glad that GM is finally getting (back) into the EV game. The Bolt seems to be an exceptionally practical vehicle that will deal with the majority of peoples' needs (commuting) perfectly. We had a Nissan Leaf with half the range for two years and 36,000 miles and my wife was absolutely happy with it and the availability of Level 2 charging around the Philadelphia area for daily needs.
HOWEVER, it's just that - a commuter. We had a Golf TDI for any respectable trip, and the luxury of having two cars meant that we never had to worry about not being able to make a trip. Now, we have a Model S 60D, which we just took 700 miles up and down to Boston this weekend for a wedding, using only superchargers. That really opened my eyes - the EV itself is meaningless. Tons of companies will have 200+ mile range in the near future. Level 2 charging is (mostly) meaningless - the time it takes to charge at 20-30 miles of range per hour makes any longer trip impractical.
The value of an EV as an only vehicle is in the DC quickcharging network that it uses. Plain and simple. Other than that, we are really only talking about commuter and enthusiast use-cases.
Maybe some day GM will have a CCS or Chademo network that rivals Tesla's supercharger network. But until then, any other EV is really just a second vehicle.
HOWEVER, it's just that - a commuter. We had a Golf TDI for any respectable trip, and the luxury of having two cars meant that we never had to worry about not being able to make a trip. Now, we have a Model S 60D, which we just took 700 miles up and down to Boston this weekend for a wedding, using only superchargers. That really opened my eyes - the EV itself is meaningless. Tons of companies will have 200+ mile range in the near future. Level 2 charging is (mostly) meaningless - the time it takes to charge at 20-30 miles of range per hour makes any longer trip impractical.
The value of an EV as an only vehicle is in the DC quickcharging network that it uses. Plain and simple. Other than that, we are really only talking about commuter and enthusiast use-cases.
Maybe some day GM will have a CCS or Chademo network that rivals Tesla's supercharger network. But until then, any other EV is really just a second vehicle.
You missed what GM introduced in late 2010. They came up with commuter EV that also has the ability to go anywhere in North America, no restrictions on range or routes, ever.
This was GM's thought: It will be many years before all of North America has DCFC. How do you resolve that, yet still allow you to go to work every day on pure EV power? The answer is the Volt. You very, very seldom have to put gas in it, but it never has range anxiety.
When you look at how most people really drive, it was engineered specifically to meet that requirement as an "only" car. The reality is that most EV owners of all brands, even Tesla also have access to ICE vehicles for those situations where a BEV is not the right tool.
You might be surprised. The X is my only car, as the Volt was before it.
I just had my first real Supercharged trip (around 400 miles) and I loved it. I only had to wait for the car once - and that was only because everything was closed at 9pm on Sunday night.
Breaks for bathrooms and meals after mostly enough time to charge the car, and the car gives ample information about where to go and how you're doing on energy.
Tesla has made roadtrips almost effortless - easier than in my Volt or ICE car (though it only works if you take the breaks you probably should anyway,) and a lot of that is because of the Supercharger network.
I've long said that it is a big competitive advantage for Tesla, and I think the next couple years are going to prove that.
I would disagree with you on this, at least here in California. I know myself and 9 other Tesla owners personally. Only 2 of them have a gas car in addition to their Tesla, and those cars are collecting dust. I drive my Tesla from Santa Barbara to Seattle, Phoenix, San Fran, Albuquerque, and even around the Navajo and Hopi reservations with regularity. 3 years and 70,000 miles I have not bought a single gallon of gas.
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