No prob, even I did a double take at first when I saw brucet999's posts. Lol
"Wait, I don't remember posting that! .......oh, nm, that's not me."
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Chevy Bolt First Impressions
- Thread starter CameronB
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- Electric Vehicles
No prob, even I did a double take at first when I saw brucet999's posts. Lol
"Wait, I don't remember posting that! .......oh, nm, that's not me."
Bangor Bob
Member
Like they did with the Z/28?
That was mostly to increase cooling during track use than weight.
Chevrolet replaces 'bowtie' with 'flowtie' in Z28
Or was that honestly the best thing you could think of? Don't worry, if aren't an engineer or you don't race, you probably have no idea what goes inside cars.
diamond.g
Active Member
That was the path BMW took, and look at the MSRP, the size, the range, and the performance. All inferior to the Bolt, but it is certainly a lot lighter although with a taller CG.
By opting instead for high strength alloy sheet steel, composite polymer, and aluminum, Chevrolet hit higher goals for significantly less money. Other than letting strangers know you won't Buy American because you are Elite and Fashionable, there is no reason for any BMW i3 sales.
However, something isn't quite right with the specifications for the i3 and Bolt. The new 33kWh i3 non/REx claims 170HP and 2961lb. This is 17.4 pounds to haul around for every HP. The Bolt carries 17.9 pounds for every HP, so the BMW should be quicker, not slower in the 1/4 mile than the Bolt. It has both a lower trap speed and longer elapsed time than the Bolt, not to mention worse 0-60. And the range should be more than 1/2 the Bolt's range with the BMW's 33kWh array. It's just a hair under 1/2 the 60kWh Bolt's range with 114 miles of combined EPA range vs 238 miles.
This is especially puzzling since so many Experts insist the Bolt has the aerodynamic shape of a drogue chute (for those in Rio Linda, a parachute designed to slow moving vehicles deliberately).
Is it Chevrolet under-reporting their specs or BMW exaggerating their specs? Historically, it's most likely to be both. Chevy has often blindsided competitors by misreporting their specs. BMW has often used specs for bragging rights, but have been known to bend the truth.
Apparently it is a Clipper Creek unit that was OEMed to GM. I can personally vouch for its 240v capability. I have built two adapters for my Volts EVSE - a 14-30/50/60, and a 6-50. However I almost always use a different EVSE (actually a JESLA - which is a Tesla UMC modified to have a J1772 on it) to get the full 16 amps. I built the adapters for fun and backup.
It will be interesting to see what they provide with the Ampera EV (European Bolt EV). I'd guess it would be the same 'brick', but with connectors that are correct for Europe.
Bangor Bob
Member
I see a 12V lead-acid battery up front. That can go away. Move the DC-DC converter inside the battery casing to comply with "no HV present outside the pack when vehicle is off" regulations. That also saves a HV cable run, cooling ducting and a fan, letting it share the battery cooling system. (And in my Volt would allow a spare tire to fit into the spare tire well - if I also relocated the factory subwoofer that shares space with the 12V battery they jammed in there).
Integrate the AC charger into the traction motor's drive inverter software. Allows for AC charging at up to whatever 2 phases of the motor inverter regen input is rated for rather than a pitiful 6.6kW. Also saves a set of liquid cooling connections, valves, a circulator pump, bracketry.
Simpler, cheaper (fewer components, less assembly), AND lighter.
Can I have power seats in my Volt now?
Integrate the AC charger into the traction motor's drive inverter software. Allows for AC charging at up to whatever 2 phases of the motor inverter regen input is rated for rather than a pitiful 6.6kW. Also saves a set of liquid cooling connections, valves, a circulator pump, bracketry.
Simpler, cheaper (fewer components, less assembly), AND lighter.
Can I have power seats in my Volt now?
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ThosEM
Space Weatherman
Thanks so much for the engineering lesson ;-P However, I can guaran-damn-tee you that any given seat is considerably more expensive with a multi-motor drive unit and controller. Let's see how our base Model ☰ stacks up in this area, shall we?
My understanding is that the initial Roadster used something along these lines for it's charging architecture.
Ultimately they moved away from this design in later versions of the Roadster (and the Model S/X platforms), ostensibly for technical reasons as opposed to IP licensing issues with AC Propulsion.
Bangor Bob
Member
The Renault Zoe uses this method, it can AC charge at up to 43kW. Of course you can also blow up the motor inverter by plugging it into a miswired outlet. Hopefully Tesla will return to it (with some miswiring protections!) for the Model 3 where cost really, really matters. Likewise with the DC/DC converter either being part of the pack or being mounted right on it.
I'm average-ish height (5'9"/176cm). Salesman was maybe 5'11. He didn't seem to have an issue (and I certainly didn't) but, no, there weren't any 6'4" or really tall guys in the car that I saw.
5 adults in there? Technically I'd say yes but I'd think they would be cramped as the car is kinda narrow.
Agreed about lack of power seats being a cost saving measure above all else. Regarding Model 3, I think many enthusiasts will skip the base model but there are certainly people out there that even a $30k car (after tax rebate if that's still available, or $35-$37k if not) is expensive so I think that out of the 400k+ reservations there will still be a decent amount of base model buyers. Probably not many of those are necessarily on this forum though.
brucet999
Active Member
I stopped by a dealer to see the Bolt today.
It looks smaller in real life than in pictures.
I noticed that it comes with only a 120V charging cable; not surprising, but what did surprise me was that the cable itself is only 18ga wire. That seems much too skimpy for sustained loads. I won't run my hand-held circular saw or Sawmill on anything less than 12V extension cords if I can help it.
If you want 240V charging, you have to order a hard-wired (40A breaker) wall-mounted 32A charger (made by Aerovironment Corp. but has GM part number; special order; cost $800), capable of a respectable 25 rated miles per charging hour.
It looks smaller in real life than in pictures.
I noticed that it comes with only a 120V charging cable; not surprising, but what did surprise me was that the cable itself is only 18ga wire. That seems much too skimpy for sustained loads. I won't run my hand-held circular saw or Sawmill on anything less than 12V extension cords if I can help it.
If you want 240V charging, you have to order a hard-wired (40A breaker) wall-mounted 32A charger (made by Aerovironment Corp. but has GM part number; special order; cost $800), capable of a respectable 25 rated miles per charging hour.
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I'd suggest you get a wall charger such as HCS40 from Clipper Creek but get one with a Nema 14-50 plug on it (not hardwired), and also install a Nema 14-50 socket on your garage wall. Why a 14-50? Well because there is a good chance you'll own a Tesla soon enough and the Tesla uses just that, a Nema 14-50.
IIRC, it uses the same Clipper Creek EVSE as the 2016+ Volt. You could not use 18ga wire in an EVSE. That's about 6 amps, and the charger goes to 12.
If you feed it 240vac, it charges at 240v x 12a which is about 10 mph.
40a L2 = $499 for 14-50 long reach portable Juice Box.
brucet999
Active Member
Stamped right on the cord of the supplied 120V charging cable, "18AWG"
EDIT:
You are partially correct, my bad.
I'm not going to cut one apart just to see how it works, but it's marked:
Electric Vehicle 3 Cond 16awg + 1 Cond 18awg
It certainly does not get even warm with continuous 12a load.
So I'm going to guess the 18ga is communication or ground, and the (3) 16ga are power lines?
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