Chevy Bolt First Impressions

[brucet999]

I drove a Bolt today. My impressions:

Salesman not very informed; told me that "238 miles range is conservative" and "people are getting 271 miles" "Maybe at 30 mph, but not at 70mph", I said. "No, no", he said, "Doesn't matter how fast, 60, 70, even 90 - doesn't matter." Riiighht.

Charge time is listed on window sticker as 18hr for included 120V charging cable; 9.3 hours for 240V (amperage not stated).

The car I drove had no DC fast-charging capability. Salesman claims 30 minutes to full charge from depleted battery for fast DC. That seems too fast to me for a nominal 60 kWh battery. Even from 10% to 90% SOC in 30 minutes would mean an average 96 kW charge rate.

Salesman told me that Chevy doesn't sell a 240V charging station. Actually they do, complete with GM part number, but made by AeroVironment Corp. - $800 for 32A 240V output charging station. Salesman recommended Bosch unit for about $1500 installed, but had no details about it. There is no way to plug into a dryer or 14-50 outlet at home.

The car I drove was "Premier"? version with leather or part leather seats (I couldn't tell) instead of basic cloth and a luggage compartment cover to hide stuff from view. Fairly comfortable seats, but no lumbar support adjustment. Manual adjustments for up/down were quite smooth; felt kinda like a bicycle pump. Recline was quick and bumpy, dropping into fixed detents. Forward/back was quick, but difficult to move forward since your own weight tends to move the seat backward.

AV system supports iPhone and Android music via BlueTooth. There is a shark fin roof antenna as well, so I suspect its am/fm radio reception would be better than Tesla's.

The car is much smaller than it looks in pictures, seems shorter than Volt ,but higher so that headroom both front and rear is very good. My 6'2" friend commented that he could have worn a hat without touching the headliner. Back seats are higher than Model S, so knees are comfortably less bent. Trunk space is pretty small, but it is not a road trip car anyway; plenty for groceries and such. Both rear setbacks fold down for bulkier cargo.

Side mirrors gave good rear vision and center mirror features both wide-angle camera view and direct reflection view. Backup camera gives wide angle view and presents guidelines for your path that curve as you turn the wheel.

Visibility through windows is good all around.

Regen braking in "L" mode is strong and, unlike Tesla, brings the car to a complete stop (technically it must be using friction brakes at the end like the BMW i3) without touching the brake. In "D" mode, regen is weak, so those who like ICE vehicle behavior would not be alarmed. There is a paddle control on the steering wheel you pull and hold to get more regen when in "D" mode.

Power application indicator features a "meatball" (for you ex carrier pilots out there ) a green dot that rises above center when power is applied and changes to yellow when power application is stronger; drops below center during regen. No kW indicators, just relative.

Acceleration from stopped would be considered fairly peppy, if you aren't accustomed to a Tesla. Acceleration from 45mph felt pretty weak to me. I didn't get to try it on a freeway.

Quieter than most ICE vehicles, especially small ones, but above 20 mph I was aware of an annoyingly loud motor whine.

I found the center console-mounted gearshift handle to be poorly situated; too far back. Even though I had my seat pretty far back, I had to awkwardly wedge my elbow backward a little ways between the seatbacks to get my hand on the lever. For a short person with seat forward, I would think it would be much worse. For reverse, you must press a thumb button, then move the knob forward and left; no chance of accidentally shifting into reverse.

 

[igotzzoom]

Not surprised to hear hyperbole from a car salesman. Typical. I think it's a great car overall, it's just the styling does nothing for me.

 

[Saghost]

I drove a Bolt today. My impressions:

Salesman not very informed; told me that "238 miles range is conservative" and "people are getting 271 miles" "Maybe at 30 mph, but not at 70mph", I said. "No, no", he said, "Doesn't matter how fast, 60, 70, even 90 - doesn't matter." Riiighht.

Charge time is listed on window sticker as 18hr for included 120V charging cable; 9.3 hours for 240V (amperage not stated).

The car I drove had no DC fast-charging capability. Salesman claims 30 minutes to full charge from depleted battery for fast DC. That seems too fast to me for a nominal 60 kWh battery. Even from 10% to 90% SOC in 30 minutes would mean an average 96 kW charge rate.

Salesman told me that Chevy doesn't sell a 240V charging station. Actually they do, complete with GM part number, but made by AeroVironment Corp. - $800 for 32A 240V output charging station. Salesman recommended Bosch unit for about $1500 installed, but had no details about it. There is no way to plug into a dryer or 14-50 outlet at home.

The car I drove was "Premier"? version with leather or part leather seats (I couldn't tell) instead of basic cloth and a luggage compartment cover to hide stuff from view. Fairly comfortable seats, but no lumbar support adjustment. Manual adjustments for up/down were quite smooth; felt kinda like a bicycle pump. Recline was quick and bumpy, dropping into fixed detents. Forward/back was quick, but difficult to move forward since your own weight tends to move the seat backward.

AV system supports iPhone and Android music via BlueTooth. There is a shark fin roof antenna as well, so I suspect its am/fm radio reception would be better than Tesla's.

The car is much smaller than it looks in pictures, seems shorter than Volt ,but higher so that headroom both front and rear is very good. My 6'2" friend commented that he could have worn a hat without touching the headliner. Back seats are higher than Model S, so knees are comfortably less bent. Trunk space is pretty small, but it is not a road trip car anyway; plenty for groceries and such. Both rear setbacks fold down for bulkier cargo.

Side mirrors gave good rear vision and center mirror features both wide-angle camera view and direct reflection view. Backup camera gives wide angle view and presents guidelines for your path that curve as you turn the wheel.

Visibility through windows is good all around.

Regen braking in "L" mode is strong and, unlike Tesla, brings the car to a complete stop (technically it must be using friction brakes at the end like the BMW i3) without touching the brake. In "D" mode, regen is weak, so those who like ICE vehicle behavior would not be alarmed. There is a paddle control on the steering wheel you pull and hold to get more regen when in "D" mode.

Power application indicator features a "meatball" (for you ex carrier pilots out there ) a green dot that rises above center when power is applied and changes to yellow when power application is stronger; drops below center during regen. No kW indicators, just relative.

Acceleration from stopped would be considered fairly peppy, if you aren't accustomed to a Tesla. Acceleration from 45mph felt pretty weak to me. I didn't get to try it on a freeway.

Quieter than most ICE vehicles, especially small ones, but above 20 mph I was aware of an annoyingly loud motor whine.

I found the center console-mounted gearshift handle to be poorly situated; too far back. Even though I had my seat pretty far back, I had to awkwardly wedge my elbow backward a little ways between the seatbacks to get my hand on the lever. For a short person with seat forward, I would think it would be much worse. For reverse, you must press a thumb button, then move the knob forward and left; no chance of accidentally shifting into reverse.

There's no way the Bolt can charge from empty in 18 hours on 120V. Probably more like 40 hours minimum.

The acceleration meatball is a carryover from the Volt. I'm not sure it's terribly useful, but it was something to stare at (GM didn't give us much information at all in early Volts. I ended up buying the DashDAQ OBDII scanner for more information.)

 

[brucet999]

There's no way the Bolt can charge from empty in 18 hours on 120V. Probably more like 40 hours minimum.

You're right. At 120V 18 hours would require an impossible 27 amps. Even charging from 10% SOC to 90%SOC would require more than 22 amps. Maximum on a 120V circuit is 20amps, so 80% rule for sustained load limits to 16A. At 85% charging efficiency, that would take 36 hours. 18 hours sounds more like a 240V 20A charge time.

I misstated the source of the 18 hour charge time as window sticker. The salesman told me 18 hours. Window sticker gave 240V 9.3 hr figure. Sorry.

then again, if it can go, according to the salesman, 271 miles at 90 mph, why not charge in 18 hours?

 

[brucet999]

Not surprised to hear hyperbole from a car salesman. Typical. I think it's a great car overall, it's just the styling does nothing for me.

It'll be a good commuting/local errands, even occasional 200 mile round trip car, but at $42k + $4k T&L + $1200 installed for 240V charger, minus $10k incentives (Fed and CA) it is a $37,200 local use car. It didn't feel like a $37k ride to me.

 

[Jeff N]

No kW indicators, just relative.

I'm pretty sure there is a kW indicator but there is more than one driver display screen format option. You may have had it configured with a simpler display option that omits some information.

Acceleration from 45mph felt pretty weak to me. I didn't get to try it on a freeway.

Acceleration above 45 mph remains strong unlike BEVs with smaller battery packs. Pretty much all reviewers have said that and the track numbers in Car & Driver demonstrate that. The 50-75 passing number (4.5 seconds?) is very good.

 

[igotzzoom]

Compared to a Model S, of course it's going to feel gutless. Compared to a Leaf or Soul EV, it should be pretty peppy.

 

[brucet999]

Can someone explain Volt/Bolt charging?

Being accustomed to the ease of using the included Tesla portable charging cable (with 120V 15A, 240V 50A and J1772 adapters and optional 240V 30A adapters for $45) I don't understand Why charging a Bolt or Volt at 240V requires a large $800 wall-mounted box. In Europe, all outlets are 240V, so will Ampera-E require an expensive wall-mount charger cable?

 

[gene]

Can someone explain Volt/Bolt charging?

Being accustomed to the ease of using the included Tesla portable charging cable (with 120V 15A, 240V 50A and J1772 adapters and optional 240V 30A adapters for $45) I don't understand Why charging a Bolt or Volt at 240V requires a large $800 wall-mounted box. In Europe, all outlets are 240V, so will Ampera-E require an expensive wall-mount charger cable?

Your Tesla UMC is basically a portable EVSE with various plug adaptors. You need it to charge your Tesla from a 14-50 (or whatever) socket. In the very same way, a Volt, Bolt, or any other EV needs an EVSE as well. These range from the Jesla (a J1772 plug on the Tesla UMC) to any variety of other portable or wall mounted EVSE such as from Clipper Creek, GE, etc. Wall units start around $500. Lots of info here: Buying Your First Home EV Charger.

Lastly, yes, in Europe just as your Tesla would still require an EVSE (your UMC) so will any other EV.

 

[McRat]

It'll be a good commuting/local errands, even occasional 200 mile round trip car, but at $42k + $4k T&L + $1200 installed for 240V charger, minus $10k incentives (Fed and CA) it is a $37,200 local use car. It didn't feel like a $37k ride to me.

EVs are not priced like most cars yet.

Which EV is a better value? The $54k 2017 i3 or the $39k 2017 Leaf? Or is it the $34k Fiat 500e?

Can someone explain Volt/Bolt charging?

Being accustomed to the ease of using the included Tesla portable charging cable (with 120V 15A, 240V 50A and J1772 adapters and optional 240V 30A adapters for $45) I don't understand Why charging a Bolt or Volt at 240V requires a large $800 wall-mounted box. In Europe, all outlets are 240V, so will Ampera-E require an expensive wall-mount charger cable?

Most Volt owners use the included small, light, portable EVSE cord. It can completely charge the battery each night. When plugged into a 240v source it will add over 30 kWh overnight to any J1772 EV.

You can spend up to $40,000 for a charger. We have three level 2 EVSEs, Clipper Creek, Bosch, JuiceBox. IIRC, that's $400/$400/$500.

Less than the cost of white paint on some cars.

 

[wws]

Can someone explain Volt/Bolt charging?

Being accustomed to the ease of using the included Tesla portable charging cable (with 120V 15A, 240V 50A and J1772 adapters and optional 240V 30A adapters for $45) I don't understand Why charging a Bolt or Volt at 240V requires a large $800 wall-mounted box. In Europe, all outlets are 240V, so will Ampera-E require an expensive wall-mount charger cable?

The Gen 2 Volt and Bolt EV factory provided charge cord (EVSE) has a 5-15 plug on one end and a J1772 plug on the other. It supports 12 amp charging at 120v. It has been discovered that it also works just fine at 240v by building a simple plug adapter cable. Current is still limited to 12 amps.

Both the Volt and Bolt EV support higher current charging at 240v - 16 and 32 amps respectively. So they can take advantage of correspondingly higher power J1772 EVSEs. If GM sells a $800 wall box, they probably don't sell many since you can buy other high power EVSEs for much less.

 

[scaesare]

Most Volt owners use the included small, light, portable EVSE cord. It can completely charge the battery each night

Isn't this supplied in a configuration as a 1.4kW (120V x 12A) charger? How does this completely charge the car overnight?

Assuming 10 hours of charge time, that's less than a 25% charge on the Bolt's 60kW pack?

When plugged into a 240v source it will add over 30 kWh overnight to any J1772 EV.

OK, so this affirms my point above, as here you talk about doubling the voltage, and thus the power supplied, and you still are only getting half of a full charge. (Despite not disclosing the charger as supplied can't be "plugged in to a 240V source", unless you supply a 3rd-party adapter)

This information is misleading, at best, and disingenuous at worst. It would take nearly 2 days, to fully charge a Bolt with the adapter used as supplied.

If you want to assume the person is only discharging the car to 75%, you need to make that assumption clear when using phrasing like "completely charging" the car. This isn't a knock on the Bolt, it's just math... you aren't completely charging a Tesla 60kW pack using it's 5-15 on the UMC either...

 

[eye.surgeon]

Did you ask the Chevy salesperson how to DC charge the car when driving 500 miles in a day?

Many of us remember when that same question could legitimately be asked of a Tesla owner. Don't dismiss the Bolt, it's a good thing.

 

[nwdiver]

Many of us remember when that same question could legitimately be asked of a Tesla owner. Don't dismiss the Bolt, it's a good thing.

Agreed... The styling is unfortunate (and probably intentional ) but it's an EV.

 

[AndY1]

Can someone explain Volt/Bolt charging?
In Europe, all outlets are 240V, so will Ampera-E require an expensive wall-mount charger cable?

No, in Europe, the EVSE, that comes with the car, already works at 230V and is switchable (at least Amepera/Volt1) between 6 and 10 Amps.
I use it in my garage 24/7 for my Ampera and I have in the car another mobile EVSE, which can switch between 10 and 16A @ 230V. Our outlets already support 230V@16A, so you actually don't need a wallbox.

 

[McRat]

Isn't this supplied in a configuration as a 1.4kW (120V x 12A) charger? How does this completely charge the car overnight?

Assuming 10 hours of charge time, that's less than a 25% charge on the Bolt's 60kW pack?



OK, so this affirms my point above, as here you talk about doubling the voltage, and thus the power supplied, and you still are only getting half of a full charge. (Despite not disclosing the charger as supplied can't be "plugged in to a 240V source", unless you supply a 3rd-party adapter)

This information is misleading, at best, and disingenuous at worst. It would take nearly 2 days, to fully charge a Bolt with the adapter used as supplied.

If you want to assume the person is only discharging the car to 75%, you need to make that assumption clear when using phrasing like "completely charging" the car. This isn't a knock on the Bolt, it's just math... you aren't completely charging a Tesla 60kW pack using it's 5-15 on the UMC either...

The question was Volt/Bolt Charging.

The most electricity a Volt holds is 14.1 kWh. The cable at 120v volts will do that in under 12 hours.
However, the same cable will operate at 240v with an adapter. It runs at 12 amp x 240 volts. This is 2.8kWh. In 12 hours, that will add 30 kWh. It took a whopping 60 minutes to make both the adapter and a quad 120v outlet. Left is L1 / Right is L2. small blade L & R = 244 vac 1 ph unloaded, 241 while charging.

However to add 60 kWh at night to an EV (any), you will need at least 22 amps. The Bolt supports 32 amps. A 40 amp 14-50 portable is $499. It is much heavier duty than others.

But if the factory EVSE puts 30 kWh inside in less than 12 hours, how many hours do you think in a Bolt day? It's still 24, so that's 1 day.

It is you that is making assumptions that Bolts do not follow normal physical laws. Call it a Widget made by Hupmobile and see if your opinions change about kW and kWh, and the charging system on cars.


Since Bruce brought up the whole Tesla Charger is More Brilliant, you need to ask yourself, Do You Feel Lucky?

While a Tesla charger does not violate physical laws, it does violate Build Codes and Safety if Brucet999 is correct.

If my reading is correct, melting the included portable EVSE has been an issue, and I completely understand why.

A 15 amp continuous draw into a 15 amp socket is dangerous. Or does the OEM EVSE have the true 5-20 blades to stop you from burning down your house? How many houses have and can support 24/7 a continuous 50 amps aux draw in the summer? When many houses still have 150a total service for the house and garage, didn't the engineer feel like he was handing a box of strike-anywheres to a chimpanzee in a barn full of hay? More realistically, all it would do is drop the voltage in the house and destroy your electronic devices slowly but surely. Brown out conditions thrash power supplies.

 

[scaesare]

Brucet999 did combine both cars in the question:

"Why charging a Bolt or Volt at 240V requires a large $800 wall-mounted box."

This being a Bolt thread, I didn't catch that the Volt was not addressed in the reply. Mea culpa.

I do think, however, that the distinction needed to be made. It's not as if the answer as to what Volt owners do today holds for what Bolt owners will be able to do once they receive their cars...

Nor is it really telling the whole story (especially to the uninitiated who is likely to ask such a question) to say: "When plugged into a 240v source it will add over 30 kWh overnight to any J1772 EV", when you can't plug the supplied cable in to a 240V source.

While it may take you an hour to make an adapter, it might take such a person 3 hours, or be completely beyond their capability. Therefore they'd have to purchase a 3rd-party adapter. Any of the above scenarios requires an expenditure of time, money, or both. They also have warranty, safety, and peace-of-mind implications.

But if the factory EVSE puts 30 kWh inside in less than 12 hours, how many hours do you think in a Bolt day? It's still 24, so that's 1 day.

I give you that I missed the "Volt" part of the question above, but you are still being disingenuous. The factory EVSE does not supply 30kWh in under 12 hours as provided. Therefore it's not going to supply 60kWh in a 24 hour period. It will take nearly double that. What's more, the time frame you alluded to was overnight...I only referred to 2 days in order to illustrate how far off that was.

While a Tesla charger does not violate physical laws, it does violate Build Codes and Safety if Brucet999 is correct.

BruceT is correct, however it is you that made some assumptions (does that make us even?)

A 15 amp continuous draw into a 15 amp socket is dangerous. Or does the OEM EVSE have the true 5-20 blades to stop you from burning down your house?

All Tesla adapters signal the EVSE what their rating is, which then adjusts it's pilot signal to inform the car of safe current draw rate. The Tesla charger is supplied with a 5-15. This allows for the correct draw of 12A as per code.

The available 5-20 adapter (which is indeed built with correct blade orientation) allows a max. 16A draw. I use one 4 times a week at work.

Tesla has 6-15's (240V @ 15A socket, allowing 12A draw) as well.

How many houses have and can support 24/7 a continuous 50 amps aux draw in the summer?

Again, the adapters are smart and signal the correct current draw. Thus the 14-50 allows for a 40A draw.

And your math is showing: given that 240V @ 40A = ~10kWh, there is no requirement for a "24/7 continuous load". Even the largest 100kWh pack will charge in around 10 hours.

Many folks can charge 60/70/75 cars at 30A (and other sockets are more common, with Tesla having supplied these as optional adapters too, although I currently don't see them available in the store but understand they are being revised). I have a couple of these, such as the 10-30 often seen at trailer parks.

The last part of your post is hyperbole & FUD that I won't bother with.

 

[brucet999]

No, in Europe, the EVSE, that comes with the car, already works at 230V and is switchable (at least Amepera/Volt1) between 6 and 10 Amps.
I use it in my garage 24/7 for my Ampera and I have in the car another mobile EVSE, which can switch between 10 and 16A @ 230V. Our outlets already support 230V@16A, so you actually don't need a wallbox.

We have a variety of 240V outlets that are commonly found in North American houses; 20A, 30A, 40A and 50A, so I am puzzled that a Euro-style 240V EVSE is not supplied here with adapters for the various 120V and 240V outlet types, instead of having to install an expensive wall-mounted device that will be of no use when visiting friends or relatives, many of whom would have at least a 240V 30A dryer outlet within reach.

 

[stopcrazypp]

We have a variety of 240V outlets that are commonly found in North American houses; 20A, 30A, 40A and 50A, so I am puzzled that a Euro-style 240V EVSE is not supplied here with adapters for the various 120V and 240V outlet types, instead of having to install an expensive wall-mounted device that will be of no use when visiting friends or relatives, many of whom would have at least a 240V 30A dryer outlet within reach.

To be fair to GM, most other EVs don't provide a standard EVSE with 240V support either (although they have optional expensive wall mounted boxes). Tesla is the unique one in that regard and offers the best solution (which is why the JESLA exists).

 

[McRat]

We have a variety of 240V outlets that are commonly found in North American houses; 20A, 30A, 40A and 50A, so I am puzzled that a Euro-style 240V EVSE is not supplied here with adapters for the various 120V and 240V outlet types, instead of having to install an expensive wall-mounted device that will be of no use when visiting friends or relatives, many of whom would have at least a 240V 30A dryer outlet within reach.

We have a large modern house in SoCal. The dryer is gas. So are most houses in HB.

All houses have 120 x 15. This capable of charging EVs safely at 5 miles per hour. Plan your trips accordingly, because not everybody wants to move their cars out of their garage and move their drier so you can keep your car cleaner than theirs.