Chevy Bolt in the Wild

[melindav]

There was the EV Roadmap Conference in Portland a couple weeks ago and there was a red Bolt on display.
individual pix ULRs are locked in their Flickr account, but here's the link to the event's album

ETA... and for all those thinking the hatchback is an advantage in trunk/cargo space, I think the Model 3 wins in space over what the Bolt has
Bolt open hatch

 

[Breezy]

ETA... and for all those thinking the hatchback is an advantage in trunk/cargo space, I think the Model 3 wins in space over what the Bolt has

The Model 3 might have more cubic feet between the trunk and frunk. We'll have to see. But hatchbacks generally make for more usable space.

Hatchbacks win in terms of utility. Sedans in terms of styling.

I never thought I would like a hatchback until I owned one.

 

[melindav]

The Model 3 might have more cubic feet between the trunk and frunk. We'll have to see. But hatchbacks generally make for more usable space.

Hatchbacks win in terms of utility. Sedans in terms of styling.

I never thought I would like a hatchback until I owned one.

Did you look at the pix? it may have a larger opening, but the actual space behind the hatch is tiny (and the hatch opening itself is not huge)

 

[Az_Rael]

Did you look at the pix? it may have a larger opening, but the actual space behind the hatch is tiny (and the hatch opening itself is not huge)

The space behind my seats in my hatchback Volt is small compared to our Audi S4. However, I can get waaaay more luggage in the Volt due to that extra height. It allows suitcases to be stacked vertically which you can't usually do in a sedan trunk (as we figured out on a recent trip with the Audi)

I think the Volt only has 10.6 ft^3 vs the Audi's 12.4, but the Audi ended up lots less usable.

 

[Breezy]

Did you look at the pix? it may have a larger opening, but the actual space behind the hatch is tiny (and the hatch opening itself is not huge)

Sure did. The Bolt has 16.9 cu. ft. behind the rear seat and 56.6 cu. ft. with seats folded. I think the Bolt wins in terms of cargo practicality.

 

[Chopr147]

Except GM said on the record that their supply chain allows them to build at least 50,000 Bolts a year during the next several years.

The 30,000 comes from an old Reuters article quoting anonymous supplier sources regarding how many Bolt EVs that GM was preparing at that time to build in the first year of production.

30,000 is more than the number of Tesla Model S cars that were sold in the U.S. last year -- 25,202. And those sales numbers are seriously disrupting the European premium car sales in the US.

Even though people like to deride the Bolt EV for looking like an econobox utility car it actually will be selling in the $30,000+ category and 30,000 car sales in that price range is usually considered good.

Tesla aims to sell a lot more and is scaling their factories for what would, given recent historical sales, be considered outlandishly high sales targets. This is great if Tesla manages even only half that number of sales. More power to them.

But by the standards of existing alt-fuel car sales the Bolt EV is being given a strong sales target and supply chain for a new model. For example, the Prius Liftback sold 113,000 cars in the US last year for an average price in the mid-20 thousand dollar range. The next nearest hybrid, the Prius C (under $20 thousand price) sold 37,484. The Camry hybrid sold 30,640. All other hybrid car models from all makes had sales under 30,000. All plugin hybrid and all pure-electric car models had sales of under 30,000.

That's all well and good BUT: If the choice is between a Volt or Model 3 for the same price, which one would you go for?
Or the Model 3 and Prius?
This is why I believe the Model 3 will sell very fast once it is seen out in the wild

 

[donv]

The Bolt looks more like a Leaf competitor than a Model 3 competitor.

 

[Jeff N]

That's all well and good BUT: If the choice is between a Volt or Model 3 for the same price, which one would you go for?
Or the Model 3 and Prius?
This is why I believe the Model 3 will sell very fast once it is seen out in the wild

I'm actually planning to give up my 2011 Volt to switch to a Bolt EV. I will still also have a 2004 Prius.

I plan to wait until 2019 or 2020 when any initial issues with the Model 3 settle out, a new generation of AP hardware is available, and battery prices have dropped further as Gigafactory is built out. I will likely get a Model 3 then with the larger optional pack and the Prius will go to someone else.

 

[eladts]

You can't relly compare sales number between the Model S and the Bolt just because they are both EVs. One is a full-size luxury car, the other is an economy compact car. It's like comparing the sales numbers of the Mercedes CLS and the Chevy Cruze.

 

[Chopr147]

That is true of course but the problem lies with the big automakers and the go-carts. It's like they are not really trying and don't care how transparent it is. I get it. Their money is in ICE vehicles but they will have to be forced to change eventually.

 

[rhumbliner]

@Jeff N, you plan to wait until the initial Model 3 issues settle out but you're willing to take a flyer on the Bolt? Is that because GM turns out cars with no issues? I don't understand the logic behind that statement.

 

[GSP]

GM certainly can turn out cars with no issues. They have been a player in the auto game for some time, and know what it takes. They also have many knowledgable, skilled and dedicated employees. Unfortunately, they don't always follow through. Sometimes executives demand "fast, good, and cheap" when it really is only possible to do two of those at once.

For the Volt, the executive direction was "fast and good." I bought one of the first Volts, built in 2010. It was a very solid car with no issues.

I would not hesitate to buy an early Bolt EV for quality reasons. I think GM and LG both will concentrate on doing the job right.

However GM's insistence they will not contribute toward a nationwide reliable DC fast charging network, like "Char IN" for example, takes the Bolt EV completely off the list of cars I will consider. For me, owning a car is about the freedom to travel anywhere.

GSP

 

[Jeff N]

@Jeff N, you plan to wait until the initial Model 3 issues settle out but you're willing to take a flyer on the Bolt? Is that because GM turns out cars with no issues? I don't understand the logic behind that statement.

I've had good luck with my last 3 cars which were all early build new models:

1. 2001 Prius

They sold the really original model only in Japan in very late 1997. 2001 was the first model in the US and Europe and had some modest changes like new battery cells (rectangular instead of round) and some tweaks to the motors and engine. I got one of the first ones off the boat.

2. 2004 Prius

This was the first year with the hatchback body and completely new hybrid transaxle but with the same basic hybrid design. I got one of the first in the US but the VIN was around 8600.

3. 2011 Volt

First year of the Volt. I got VIN 42 made during the first couple of weeks of production.

Sure, all three cars had software updates and some minor hardware recalls or updates but they were all reliable and never left me stranded except for the 2001 Prius which had a failed accelerator pedal sensor. All of these cars had solid build quality.

The vast majority of early Model S cars did not leave owners stranded either but a number have had drive replacements for noise issues etc.

Basically, as someone who is not already an owner, I'm not willing to wait a further 12-18 months for a 200+ mile BEV. I live in the San Francisco area so there are adequate CCS DC charging stations for the Bolt EV in most areas where I would drive to over a long weekend and the battery range will cover all of my daily driving in the metro area with only overnight charging.

The state government is working fairly diligently about issuing grants for expanding highway charging and EVgo sounds serious about upgrading their DC stations to 100+ kW. I suspect the Bolt will be able to actually change at 60+ kW but this only means an extra 15-20 minutes per DC charging stop vs. a smaller battery Tesla car and I'm okay with that for now. Oregon and Washington state where I am most likely to drive to also have workable coverage. Clearly this is not true and won't be true for the middle areas of the US for several more years for CCS but I almost never drive there.

I'll still have the 2004 Prius for longer trip if the Bolt isn't practical for some particular destination. I like having hatchback flexibility. I expect to have 2 cars and am happy to have the Bolt EV be one of them.

Later on, I want a 300 mile range with future generation automated driving hardware on the Model 3. I'm willing to wait a bit to guarantee that it's solid and settled in and have a chance to see the options and assess the AP hardware before buying. The Model 3 will become my daily driver and roadtrip car at that point and the Bolt will be a backup and will be used by the spousal unit for occasional commuting and other trips when public transit isn't practical.

 

[ecarfan]

So . . . THIS is what is supposed to compete with the Model 3 . . . ?
Seriously, this is Tesla's game to lose.

Agreed. The Bolt is a remarkably unattractive, mundane vehicle that looks just like dozens of other compact hatchbacks. It will have less trunk space than the Model 3 and likely less interior room, and it will definitely have a worse CD.

I seriously question GM's motivation in designing a car that dull, just as I question BMW's motivation in designing the i3 to be so bizarre looking. I do not believe that they want those EVs to sell in volume, and I am certain they do not want them to take any sales from their ICE vehicles. That is why they deliberately made them so shockingly unattractive.

In 2018 the Model 3 will outsell the Bolt by an order of magnitude. Or more.

 

[scaesare]

@Jeff N, you plan to wait until the initial Model 3 issues settle out but you're willing to take a flyer on the Bolt? Is that because GM turns out cars with no issues? I don't understand the logic behind that statement.

In addition, I don't understand the decision to wait for Model 3 battery prices to fall when it will be cheaper than the Bolt for the same range?

 

[johnnyS]

Well it certainly does not motivate me to want to buy one. It looks too much like the little econoboxes on the road. A small car like a mini cooper can be desirable. It is hard to believe the same company designs and manufactures Corvettes.

 

[rhumbliner]

@Jeff N, I still think it's only speculation that the Bolt will: 1) be widely available in a timely fashion, i.e. before Model 3, and; 2) perform as promised. Only time will tell, but I wish you well.

 

[Jeff N]

@Jeff N, I still think it's only speculation that the Bolt will: 1) be widely available in a timely fashion, i.e. before Model 3, and; 2) perform as promised. Only time will tell, but I wish you well.

1) Wide availability doesn't matter to when I get mine. I live in California so will likely see availability first and already have usable CCS charging. People in other parts of the country may have a different experience.

Tesla is rolling out the Model 3 in phases as well. Although California will likely have early access, I'm not an existing owner or employee and I didn't reserve back before the dramatic plans were announced to scale up early production in Fremont and Sparks.

What matters to me personally is when I get mine... And ultimately, I'm happy to have one of each. And actually, I want to keep my Model 3 for awhile and have future generation AP hardware so I'm intentionally waiting on that for a bit.

2) Time will tell how the Bolt EV performs in reality. So far it all looks on track. Car and Driver drove a prototype around for 50 miles recently for their latest issue and didn't report any unusual or unexpected performance issues. GM has had a good track record with the Volt and Spark EV.

 

[Jeff N]

I seriously question GM's motivation in designing a car that dull, just as I question BMW's motivation in designing the i3 to be so bizarre looking. I do not believe that they want those EVs to sell in volume, and I am certain they do not want them to take any sales from their ICE vehicles. That is why they deliberately made them so shockingly unattractive.

The Bolt EV has design that looks consistent with GM's highest volume cars....

In 2018 the Model 3 will outsell the Bolt by an order of magnitude. Or more.

Assuming they keep to their schedule this might come true. Clearly they would sell many, many more Model 3s.

In addition, I don't understand the decision to wait for Model 3 battery prices to fall when it will be cheaper than the Bolt for the same range?

By "it" I assume you mean the price of the full car rather than the price of just the battery pack.

As best as I can tell from Tesla's ambiguous web page, the Model 3 price of $35,000 does not include the delivery fee. The Model S delivery fee is $1,200, I think. The GM price of $37,500 for the Bolt EV does include its ~$850 delivery fee. A careful price comparison would compare the base equipment and features on the two cars and we don't have that level of detail yet. I think it's fair to assume the price difference is within $2,000 or so. Since I plan on getting both cars it's not really an issue of choosing one vs the other for me.

 

[Twiglett]

The Leaf has a hatch as well, but because only the seat backs fold down, the space is very difficult to use effectively.
The other issue is hatch angle means there isn't a great deal of room in there - at least that you can use.
Looks like the Bolt is even worse.