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Chevy Sonic (200 mile BEV?)

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by RobStark, Jul 24, 2014.

  1. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

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  2. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    I have a hard time seeing how GM is going to fit 50kwh+ into such a small car without major compromises. I also wonder how many buyers in that segment are going to buy such an expensive car. That much battery isn't going to come cheap.
     
  3. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

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    Will such a small car need 50 kWh+ to reach 200 miles? It should prove more popular in narrow road Europe and Asia than North America.

    We have the regular whining from Europeans that the Model S is too big and sometimes too wide to fit on certain European streets.

    Europeans and Japanese are more comfortable paying big bucks for very small but fully optioned vehicles.

    Like the Volt I think this should start as a Cadillac then years later have a Chevy version.

    But I don't get paid the big bucks of GM Marketing VPs.
     
  4. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    It all depends on whether it's the EPA cycle test or not. 200 miles of range is too broad. I have a feeling that 200 GM miles doesn't equal 200 EPA miles. Probably not even close.

    The tiny Roadster would only get around a 200 mile EPA range cycle, and it has a 53kwh pack.
     
  5. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

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    That is 2008 53 kWh pack not 2016 battery cells.

    Open top roadsters are not famous for their low CD.
     
  6. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    Very true, but while surpassed by the stuff Tesla uses now, Roadster battery density is still much better than Volt and Spark. It's not like GM is going to use Panasonic 18650 cells. Tesla has them all bought up.
     
  7. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

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    Nope, they will use neither Roadster nor Volt nor Spark batteries. But something new from LG.

    Roadster used pretty much off the shelf Panasonic 18650 cells. I would bet auto specific 2016 LG cells to be superior to 2008 off the shelf Panasonic.

    I know Panasonic is ahead of both LG and Samsung but not 10 years.
     
  8. igotzzoom

    igotzzoom Member

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  9. Grendal

    Grendal Active Member

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    I'll believe it when I see it. Until then, it is just talk and speculation.

    It's sad but GM can't even market the Volt properly. They have a great car that their customers love and the sales of it are dwindling. What do you think will happen if they manage to make a 200 mile EV? They'd probably overprice it at $60K like they've overpriced the ELR.
     
  10. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    Didn't the Volt get 230mpg according to GM for a short while before they were forced to stop advertising that?
     
  11. liuping

    liuping Active Member

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    One of the biggest problems is going to get the dealer to sell the Sonic. Since there is very little ongoing maintenance, they will have no backend to the sale, and much less inceptive to push it.
     
  12. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

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    They were forced to stop because it is misleading.

    As if electricity from charging the battery from a socket did not cost money or resources to produce.

    And the average American would not keep as many road trips to under 40 miles as the current Volt customer base.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Great cars sell themselves without any need for marketing. Great cars turn customers into salesman and advocates.

    An EPA rated 200 mile Sonic EV needs to be manufactured at competitive cost so it can be sold at a competitive price.

    If it is done so there is little need for marketing.

    BTW People who actually purchased a Pontiac Aztek loved their cars; does not mean it was a great car. During the first five years of Saturn Cars existence they had the highest customer satisfaction in the industry. People spontaneously created car clubs and gatherings for what was essentially a commuter sedan.Now, neither Pontiac nor Saturn exist.
     
  13. thelastdeadmouse

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    To me the Sonic is the wrong platform for their first 200 mile range EV. I'm a current Volt owner and have rented a Sonic in the past, and as far as I'm concerned the Sonic is a 2 seater. If someone above 6' or so is in the front seat of the Sonic there is no leg room for a rear passenger, adult or child. The Volt / Cruze platform is about as small as you can go at still seat 4 adults in comfort. 50'60 kwh of battery volume is going to magnify that issue. Either the Malibu or Impala platforms would represent a better value. Unless GM has some battery magic no one else has figured out, there's going to be at least 16-18k worth of battery in a 200 EPA mile car. I don't know a lot of people that would pay 30k+ for a Chevy Sonic under any circumstances, but I do know people that would pay 35k for a 200 mile range Malibu.
     
  14. 30seconds

    30seconds Active Member

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    What they need to do is start with a clean sheet of paper. To this day it still baffles me that Toyota could take a run away success like the Prius and parley it into a string of expensive and fairly useless hybrids based on their existing platforms.
     
  15. JST

    JST Active Member

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    I think it will be a dedicated platform, only because I have no idea how you'd fit 200 miles worth of batteries in a Sonic.

    It would not surprise me to see Volt 2.0 and this notional 200 mi BEV riding on the same basic platform. I don't think that's inconsistent with what we've heard from the rumor mill. The "200 mile Sonic" headline seems to be an editorial jump from "compact EV that will replace the Sonic."
     
  16. Jeff N

    Jeff N Active Member

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  17. Reykjavik

    Reykjavik Member

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    I think they may be able to pull it off, and they may be able to do it at a reasonable price too. The three companies most capable of creating a 200 mile EV for a mass market are Tesla, Nissan, and GM. They have a lot of experience messing up EVs, they have a compliance car that functions, and they haven't completely failed to get behind the volt.

    If they build it from the ground up with being an EV in mind, and they build it for mass production, they might have a real winner.
     
  18. Grendal

    Grendal Active Member

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    What the major manufacturers seem to overlook is that making a EV version of a regular car there will be direct comparisons made. Let's say GM pulls off a 200 mile EV Sonic and sells it for $40K. A salesperson and their customer will immediately make a price comparison. "I can buy this gas version for $18K or buy the EV version for $40K. Do I really want to spend $22K extra just to get the electric version?" More than likely the answer will be no. Especially when the trunk space is lost or maybe a middle seat in the back seat like the Volt. Sadly, I can't see GM pulling this off.
     
  19. Breezy

    Breezy Member

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    Comment on the Volt sales and marketing:

    Sales of the Volt never met early projections, but it's still the best selling plug-in vehicle in the US and Canada to date. Sometimes that seems to be forgotten.

    The Volt is a great car, and it' owners are advocates and salesmen - basically the only ones GM has for it. The dealers do a terrible job with the car.
     
  20. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Said it before... they'd have to do a "Saturn" thing with separate dealerships that sold only BEV/PHEV cars if they actually expect to sell many. Their dealer network is working against them 98%.
     

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