Don't contribute to the FUD. LiPoly batteries for RC toys are not at all the same as the chemistry used in any production EV. Just because a battery has lithium as a component does not mean it's the same as other batteries that also contain lithium. LiFePO4 is one of the least reactive of lithium chemistries. I'm much more comfortable sitting over any EV battery chemistry than a tank of gas.
CAREFUL Lipo Fires Are Real!!!!
Lipo Fires Are Real!!!! - Page 20 - RC Groups
[ look at the videos & pics in this thread, SCARY! ]
These are NOT toys, R/C electrics have penetrated US Govt DoD applications (many Aerovironment employees fly them for recreation & work, see Matt Keenon TV appearances for micro R/C aircraft for military surveillance). Do you fly R/C electric? Doesn't sound like you do, if you call them toys. THEY AIN'T TOYS! Real-time video from on-board camera (all accessible to consumers), I've dabbled a bit in this area. Autonomous flying aircraft, with onboard GPS (they can fly a pre-programmed GPS path)
FACT: there is NO data on Durability/Reliability testing for long periods. That is done by the first consumers ("guinea pigs" aka unfortunate souls who have the privelege of being beta-testers or "kentucky fried chicken")
I was watching the Detroit Auto Show 2010, marketing slough by Tesla Motors. WOW, the fluff/hyperbolae I heard from Dir of Engineering (?) was unreal. When the Model S will get high-centered (or other long term stress load), the chassis will transfer the mechanical stress-load to the battery-pack. FACT: they will endure only SO MUCH, before they will crack or split. There is simply no DATA for long-term stress loads (chassis -> battery pack).
"Know yourself [ driving ability ], know your opponent [ driving environment, car limitations, etc ], you will never be defeated, in a 100 battles"
-- Sun Tzu "Art of War"
It's a WELL KNOWN fact that ANY car (race car) can be driven beyond its limits & BREAK IT. The smart racers know the cars limit, & drive to that boundary. Alain Prost was probably the most famous example, they called him the "Professor".
"Racing is a THINKING MAN's GAME"
-- Wally Dallenbach
Alain P would drive a conservative race, saving the tires, so late in the race he would have an edge over the competition, & go for the win. Rick Mears (Offroad Racing origins, a great testbed for understanding car + desert/environment), 4 time Indy 500 winner, was also a student of this approach. He would "hang around" within striking distance of the leaders, then make a late move for the win. A conservative approach.
"I drive slow enough to WIN"
-- Rob MacCachren, Offroad Racing legend
Another Desert Offroad Racer, who understand the limitation of car (equipment) & environment (extreme duty environment, Desert).
I guarantee you that the 1st Model S drivers will be "pushing the limits" & getting into problems. Look at how the multi-speed gearboxes FAILED under Durability/Reliability testing @Tesla Motors
[ the 1st time I saw Martin Eberhard in 25 odd yrs, was on the NBC test drive..everything OK, tranny blew up, had to pull over with NBC reporter riding shotgun. Little did we all know, THAT was the beginning of the end for Martin's tenure @Tesla. Elon Musk (apparently NO legitimate Physics degree, much less Engineering) kept "pushing the limits" to insanity, asking WAY TOO MUCH from engineers. Man, you CANNOT do "off the shelf" R&D, especially with a new unproven formula: multi speed gear box mated to electric motor. instantaenous torque curve putting HUGE stress loads on tranny internals: breakage inevitable. I actually know an Offroad Racing team which was an Xtrac development Partner & they had the SAME BREAKAGE problem. It took SEVERAL MONTHS of empiricism (returning broken tranny, seeing what broke, beefing up that part, repeat) before they FIXED IT. They went on to win their first race EVER, followed by podium finishes (& wins) in later races that year ]
I guarantee you problems surfacing about chassis flex, battery pack damage, some fires. It's all UNPROVEN in long range use: time & mileage. Unless, they're REALLY LUCKY, with some exceptional robust engineering (doubtful). I think they are cutting weight (thus losing robustness in mechanical integrity/rigidity).
I have a PhD in Electrical Eng (Martin was in same group as me, he has Masters), & I've seen it all & done my own share of Engineering. SH*T HAPPENS. You can never predict the future, in terms of worst-case scenarios. That's why
"Real World Knowledge" (field tests) ALWAYS TRUMPS "Book Knowledge" (computer simulations, modeling, etc)
I hope Tesla Motors IS aware of the fire danger of Li-XXX batteries & addresses it with robust engineering of battery packs & chassis. Otherwise, the multi-speed gearbox failure will pale in comparison to "luxury Model S, masquerading as a firebomb"
"in order to Push the Limits, sometimes you have to EXCEED THE LIMITS"
-- Formula 1, Australian GP (2003?)
ALL the major Auto mfrs have extensive Racing Programs, from their very beginning of their formation. Honda, Audi, Volkswagen, Porsche, Toyota, etc. Where is Tesla Motors racing program? Some afterthought thing, not a detailed Development Partner (like Xtrac did). You can do in 1 race, what would take 100K miles in simulated long term real world simulation (Durability/Reliability phase). Lotus & Chevrolet are coming as new engine suppliers to Indycar, & they signed certain teams as "partners" (factory teams that have a strong bi-modal communication). E.g., HVM Racing for Lotus Motorsports, it was just announced this last 2011 LA Auto Show. A new Dallara chassis is coming next year, extensive testing is happening RIGHT NOW. Penske Racing is at Fontana/CA right now, putting it thru its paces (Chevrolet engine + Dallara chassis) Here is what happens at that track, when something goes wrong:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tl-6oqN0i4
Greg was set to move on to Penske Racing in 2000, before he was tragically killed in last race for 1999.
I guarantee you someone in a Model S is gonna get hurt! (or worse). I'm not being a pessimist, just being realistic.
