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JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Agree, good research. I'll have to decide if I'll use it against the perma bears or just let them continue to think China is an unknown factor 
Sometimes it's more fun to let their misguided speculation run wild.
Sometimes it's more fun to let their misguided speculation run wild.
Raffy.Roma
Rome (Italy)
I also agree that Cankooo1 made a very good research. But in the research done by Cankooo1 I see from the side of Chinese Authorities a certain resistance with respect to the Tesla SC network that for the time being cannot be installed in China. IMO Tesla has to keep its own recharge SC network at Global Level because it's the only automaker at global level building electric cars with the purpose of accomplishing long distance trips. So I hope that in a near future Chinese Authorities will make up their mind with respect to the Tesla SC network.
chickensevil
Active Member
Agree, good research. I'll have to decide if I'll use it against the perma bears or just let them continue to think China is an unknown factor
Screw em... After the whole latest Paulo thing going on, and his like three articles in a row, I think they deserve to take a little smack in the face. They had their "win" with the stock hitting 211 today. If they didn't dump their money and call it off then too bad for them. Sorry for being so cynical. Not like the real shorts wouldn't see this post anyway. (I swear I'm a nice guy, just tired of arguing with irrational people)
Cankooo1, thanks for putting together this information! I too look forward to more collected data when you get it!
There are some issues investors should know about Chinese market
1. As I said in my previous post, Tesla is re hot in China but for different reasons. Chinese are eager to show off their newly acquired riches. Car is considered as the prominent sign of status. Many of those who drive 7 series or S class have very simply home because home can only be seen by themselves, not others. This is why Ikea is considered as upscale home store in China and bed quality in most Chinese homes are very poor.
2. For above reasons, I initially doubted Tesla's "low price" policy in China. Everyone in China including 5 years kindergarten kids knows price difference between a 740 and a A8. Even driver, I mean the one who is hired to drive for a rich person feels embarrassed when his A8 is parked next to a 740. I was literally told so by an A8 driver
3. "the upper middle class can also afford Model S with current price tag". This is simply not true. It's a huge misleading. The price is beyond reach of most doctors, small business owners and upper managers of most private companies.
4. A big issue is charge. Most Chinese live in apartments. It is difficult for them to install chargers. Many simply don't have dedicated parking spots.
5. I guess that it is not difficult to find early adopters in big city like Beijing and Shanghai where US technology and western lifestyle are eagerly shown off by rich and trendy people. It is hard to predict how quick and deep the fashion can penetrate to 2nd and 3rd tier cities.
1. As I said in my previous post, Tesla is re hot in China but for different reasons. Chinese are eager to show off their newly acquired riches. Car is considered as the prominent sign of status. Many of those who drive 7 series or S class have very simply home because home can only be seen by themselves, not others. This is why Ikea is considered as upscale home store in China and bed quality in most Chinese homes are very poor.
2. For above reasons, I initially doubted Tesla's "low price" policy in China. Everyone in China including 5 years kindergarten kids knows price difference between a 740 and a A8. Even driver, I mean the one who is hired to drive for a rich person feels embarrassed when his A8 is parked next to a 740. I was literally told so by an A8 driver
3. "the upper middle class can also afford Model S with current price tag". This is simply not true. It's a huge misleading. The price is beyond reach of most doctors, small business owners and upper managers of most private companies.
4. A big issue is charge. Most Chinese live in apartments. It is difficult for them to install chargers. Many simply don't have dedicated parking spots.
5. I guess that it is not difficult to find early adopters in big city like Beijing and Shanghai where US technology and western lifestyle are eagerly shown off by rich and trendy people. It is hard to predict how quick and deep the fashion can penetrate to 2nd and 3rd tier cities.
Some more information for China:
sina.com.cn 4[SUP]th[/SUP] most visited website in China published interview with
Veronica Wu (she is on the picture), Vice President of Tesla’s China operations
http://tech.sina.com.cn/z/featurewbx/
She told the reporter that “the number of orders Tesla has received per week in China is ranked as the first in the world"
This interview was covered also by Forbs http://www.forbes.com/sites/jackperkowski/2014/03/24/whats-it-like-to-buy-a-tesla-in-china/
Also there is an article that claims that Tesla received 200 orders in January alone before the price was officially announced the article is published 20. Of January, the pricing was announced on 22th. http://www.nbd.com.cn/articles/2014-01-20/804674.html
Forbs are estimating current reservations “ more than 1,000, but less than the 7,000” the exact number is pure speculation but the proof that the number is huge is that:
"After paying the deposit Chinese customers may also need to wait nearly a year to receive the car".
I am assuming that this official statement from the VP could means that production for 2014 initially dedicated to China is nearly sold out before firs delivery.
My initial information was also that reservations are in thousands for two months after official pricing.
It was added that waiting does not seem stopping the user enthusiasm.
Popular CEOs form the financial and technological field are making orders: Lei Jun one of the most popular Chinese entrepreneurs and CEO’s are waiting deliveries of Tesla (just to show how influential are the early adopters in China: only Lei Jun has over 8 million fans in Chinese twitter )
Tesla has 30 employees (proved experts from IT, conventional cars, electricity, law ) They will became hundreds this year.
sina.com.cn 4[SUP]th[/SUP] most visited website in China published interview with
Veronica Wu (she is on the picture), Vice President of Tesla’s China operations
http://tech.sina.com.cn/z/featurewbx/
She told the reporter that “the number of orders Tesla has received per week in China is ranked as the first in the world"
This interview was covered also by Forbs http://www.forbes.com/sites/jackperkowski/2014/03/24/whats-it-like-to-buy-a-tesla-in-china/
Also there is an article that claims that Tesla received 200 orders in January alone before the price was officially announced the article is published 20. Of January, the pricing was announced on 22th. http://www.nbd.com.cn/articles/2014-01-20/804674.html
Forbs are estimating current reservations “ more than 1,000, but less than the 7,000” the exact number is pure speculation but the proof that the number is huge is that:
"After paying the deposit Chinese customers may also need to wait nearly a year to receive the car".
I am assuming that this official statement from the VP could means that production for 2014 initially dedicated to China is nearly sold out before firs delivery
. My initial information was also that reservations are in thousands for two months after official pricing.
It was added that waiting does not seem stopping the user enthusiasm.
Popular CEOs form the financial and technological field are making orders: Lei Jun one of the most popular Chinese entrepreneurs and CEO’s are waiting deliveries of Tesla (just to show how influential are the early adopters in China: only Lei Jun has over 8 million fans in Chinese twitter )
Tesla has 30 employees (proved experts from IT, conventional cars, electricity, law ) They will became hundreds this year.
chickensevil
Active Member
China, naturally, has their own charging standard that is intended to support a ridiculously high current. I'm sure Tesla would love to hook into a network like that.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
A bit of negativity:
http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20140325000142&cid=1206
http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20140325000142&cid=1206
*facepalm at the quote*
At the same time, interesting that it notes Elon may visit china at the end of march. If true, would likely be accompanied with some announcements, as with Europe he doesn't like to visit empty-handed.
Cankooo, really appreciate the slew of information with links to source material.
a couple of thoughts. obviously things are going quite well. orders per week "highest in the world," would be great, but while I think it's possible (and eventually will happen), I'm not sure this line from the Forbes article is accurate. I wonder about this based on having just read the "google translate" of the article Forbes was drawing on. that article has a comment from Tesla's China VP "google translated" to "[FONT=&]she told Sina science and technology, said China's goal is Tesla orders in the world." Thus, Forbes may have mistaken a goal for Chinese orders to be tops in the world as a current reality. Perhaps someone on here has strong enough command of Chinese to determine whether Forbe's interpretation or Googles's is more accurate?
[/FONT]Having read these links, I think I'm starting to see a piece of the delivery ramp up puzzle re China. While China might have 15K or even 20K reservations this year, the delivery target of about 5-8K for China this year I think is a combination of the supply constraints we already know about, and another supply constraint... service centers in China. that is, even if Tesla pushed really hard to expedite production and blow past their 35K 2014 production guidance to 45K, if the demand to soak up that uptick is from China, it seems they'd have to put such a ramp up on hold to avoid delivering 15K cars into a country with only a handful of service centers. Tesla does not want to tarnish what seems to be a stellar perception of the brand by having a huge mismatch between vehicles and service centers. Have to think they are looking for a massive expansion of service centers in the next year so they can let the vehicles flow into China at full steam quite soon.
Update: TM website indicates only one service center in mainland China today (Beijing).
play with the map of current and coming service centers in EU vs. China, and I think the service center/delivery challenge in China becomes clear.
Stores Service Centers | Tesla Motors
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I know that I do prefer to share good news with you nevertheless I have tried to be as much objective as possible. And if I found something concerning or negative I will not hesitate to let you know. Actually I haven’t seen any article which I can mark as negative. Often there are expressed some level of concerns needed for each balanced article. I am sure we will meet negativity at some point in the future and I do expect it from people in with nationalistic mindsets and anti-western moods. I am confident that this is not present.
I am also making a big effort to check the reliability of the source. This was the reason why I have posted the article from sina.com.cn as it is 4[SUP]th[/SUP] biggest website in China.
Anyway the article from want china times is misleading in my opinion. My assumption is that they mean that criticism is in general not in China. Other vice their statement is highly inaccurate.
Furthermore I do not think that anyone can criticize the battery technology in Tesla.
I am also making a big effort to check the reliability of the source. This was the reason why I have posted the article from sina.com.cn as it is 4[SUP]th[/SUP] biggest website in China.
Anyway the article from want china times is misleading in my opinion. My assumption is that they mean that criticism is in general not in China. Other vice their statement is highly inaccurate.
Furthermore I do not think that anyone can criticize the battery technology in Tesla.
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From Tesla Motors finds fans in China despite criticism
Since 2011, Beijing's IT executives have begun discussing Tesla on social media sites such as Sina Weibo, with Xiaomi Technology CEO Lei Jun as the top fan. Lei visited Tesla twice last year, meeting with Musk and praising the latter's innovative spirit. "It's so cool having a Tesla. From now on, in the car industry you will talk about only two kinds of cars: Tesla and the rest," said Lei.
This was encouraging to read. Lei Jun (ceo of Xiaomi) is a tech icon in China. Some people refer to him as the Steve Jobs of China. And he's got tons of young people following him. So, it's interesting that he gets it and is excited about Tesla. It's also interesting to hear that it's the tech folks in China that are most enthused about Tesla (vs the ultra-wealthy). I'm curious to hear what kind of buying power the tech class has (vs the ultra wealthy).
pz1975
Active Member
Do US companies ever trade stock on the Chinese stock market? TSLA trades in Germany and I think it would be very popular as an investment in China, especially as it starts to gain in notoriety and popularity in the coming years. I imagine it would increase demand for the stock and drive its price higher.
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