No, it is an up to $12.5k discount on the price tag of the Model S itself. And hybrids also qualifies for this discount.
My understanding from reading Rob's post (did not open the link):
1. Customer's car gets auctioned by Tesla, Tesla picks up the auction fee
2. Say car gets sold for $x.
3. Tesla pockets auction proceeds ($x) and discounts Model S to the customer for the $x
4. $x is capped at $12,500
5. Nett discount to the customer is the auction fee
This is pure discount on top your trade in value, but it gets even better:
if you don't have a car to trade in, your friendly tesla employees will basicly get one for you from cooperation partner (at least Parkview store) so you bring a beaten down 1000$ car and get up to 13500 discount.
Now please come forward and explain me how this is not a sale
the margin is now way below 10%, does it even cost of sales?
if you don't have a car to trade in, your friendly tesla employees will basicly get one for you from cooperation partner (at least Parkview store) so you bring a beaten down 1000$ car and get up to 13500 discount.
Now please come forward and explain me how this is not a sale
the margin is now way below 10%, does it even cost of sales?
The discount in China is no news. I consider it as traditional advertisements as many local dealers offer similar deals. So, if you were waiting for Tesla to go traditional ads route, this is it.
Looking deeper into it, I feel that Q4 deliveries for MS is not sustainable into next year. If Tesla delivers 15K MS, I don't believe they will deliver 60K MS next year.
Looking deeper into it, I feel that Q4 deliveries for MS is not sustainable into next year. If Tesla delivers 15K MS, I don't believe they will deliver 60K MS next year.
This is typical tesla cheerleader FUD. Yes, Fear, Uncertain and Doubt for the fact. That's no wonder why those FUDster lost money this year. Can't LoL more!
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Many facts like this point to Tesla demand issue, not strong enough demand to sustain the overvalued stock. Otherwise, who cares the model X produciton hiccups, Elon just simply use 60K model S delivery to blow out the wallstreet expectation and TSLA would be well above $300 now. But can he?
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Many facts like this point to Tesla demand issue, not strong enough demand to sustain the overvalued stock. Otherwise, who cares the model X produciton hiccups, Elon just simply use 60K model S delivery to blow out the wallstreet expectation and TSLA would be well above $300 now. But can he?
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In investment, you need to get your conclusion from your understanding not others :smile:
It is really a plain, simple, maximum $12.5k off the price tag of a new Model S. I'm Chinese, and I read the Tesla China official words on this one, not from the understanding of another person's post on another website's report. Tesla will help customer auction his/her old car if the customer so wish, or the customer him/herself present proof of selling his/her old car within the past 3 months. Based on the make and year of the old car, Tesla China gives the customer a discount on the new Model S up to $12.5k.
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I highly doubt a beaten down 1k car will get you 12.5k discount. Likely it would not qualify you for any discount at all.
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I agree this year's Model S sales is not sustainable in 2016 too. But we may see it grow back to this level in 2017 or 2018. The various sales effort of S in H2 is trying to make up for the delayed X ramp up in order not to miss too much of the 50k guidance.
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It really depends on how you define "demand issue". If you think falling short of anything below 70% growth per year on the Model S itself, yeh, I think there is a demand issue. But if you think 50% is good enough, then no I don't think there's a demand issue. The two referral programs and this Chinese discount policy is really just making up for the delayed ramp up of X, which should have been able to help overall growth be 70% or higher this year.
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I highly doubt a beaten down 1k car will get you 12.5k discount. Likely it would not qualify you for any discount at all.
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I agree this year's Model S sales is not sustainable in 2016 too. But we may see it grow back to this level in 2017 or 2018. The various sales effort of S in H2 is trying to make up for the delayed X ramp up in order not to miss too much of the 50k guidance.
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It really depends on how you define "demand issue". If you think falling short of anything below 70% growth per year on the Model S itself, yeh, I think there is a demand issue. But if you think 50% is good enough, then no I don't think there's a demand issue. The two referral programs and this Chinese discount policy is really just making up for the delayed ramp up of X, which should have been able to help overall growth be 70% or higher this year.
Well, a fully loaded P90D in China is about 209k USD vs 144k USD in the US, and the 70 without any options is 105k vs 70k. The import duty is 25% so if we exclude it, Tesla is pocketing between 17.5k and 29k USD additional revenue for Model S sold in China. So even with 12.5k discount on a barebone S70, the gross margin would be still slightly higher than a same S70 sold in US.
The only fudster here is you making up demand issues.
Keep your lectures to yourself, i don't need your advise .
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Basically tesla sells the car and gives the customer a credit for it.
Tesla gets the X from the car auction, and sells the tesla to customer for say 100,000-X .
If accurate , Where is the discount ?
It's the typical trade in.
This would be interesting, as in the past Tesla had always said their goal was to make the same profit in each region, with the only difference being taxes and other localization/transport costs. So this would be a departure from stated policy, if your math is correct.
I my past 3 years experience with investing TSLA, many Elon Musk's promises are BS. You have to read between the lines from what Elon said and check against reality constantly. If you don't do that homework and blindly trust Elon, take your own risk for investing. Probably Elon has to do that to make Tesla survive but I don't buy it for my account balance sake.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
A FUDster is someone who spreads Fear Uncertainty and Doubt.
The more nonsense you post and LOLing at others while being wrong the more you fit into the FUDster definition.
Who posted nonsense? For this Chinese incentive topic, it's obvious not me. But I won't call you FUDster to be polite.
Fallenone the way I understand your explanation in the quoted post, your explanation does not really differ from the bullet point explanation in my post.
If your post offers the correct explanation, then there is likely some misunderstanding in translation.
The transaction that you described is not a discount, it is a trade in. Trade in is a benefit to a customer, but not for the full value of the price offset on the new car purchase. The offset on the new price is not a discount, it is an exchange.
That is my understanding from Fallenone's explanation and from reading Rob's post.
@maoing, not sure why you would choose to ever go long if this is how you feel about the chairman and CEO? At least in this case, it seems that it was not BS. Everything that he says may not always materialize, but I think it's more than a stretch to imply that Tesla is only surviving because of repeated lying by the CEO.
Not sure what makes you say something like that. It comes across as condescending and it is uncalled for.
When making investment decisions, I do act on personal conclusion after considering information from all available sources. I find Rob's posts quite informative.
Posts like the above add no value to this thread and considerably lower the standards of discussion. The post is loaded with information about the poster, but such information has no relevance to the discussion here and no place in this thread.
In my past 3 years experience of investing in TSLA, I have made tons of money on the back of the efforts of Elon Musk and other Tesla staff. I find your statement above a bad form, baseless and offensive.
I'm still long TSLA for long term. But for short term, it's a trading stock with roller-coaster characteristic. So I'm still happy to long it when I feel it has potential for good profit.
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No, it's right standard to right poster in this forum.
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That's because you made money in earlier years. If you blindly trust what Elon said about production rate, model S demand, model X ramp up, gigafactory and tesla energy since H2 of 2014, you'll screw up yourself.
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No, it's right standard to right poster in this forum.
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That's because you made money in earlier years. If you blindly trust what Elon said about production rate, model S demand, model X ramp up, gigafactory and tesla energy since H2 of 2014, you'll screw up yourself.
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