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China State Grid Corporation building "superchargers"

Discussion in 'TSLA Investor Discussions' started by ScepticMatt, Jan 11, 2015.

  1. ScepticMatt

    ScepticMatt Member

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    #1 ScepticMatt, Jan 11, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2015
    China State Grid Corporation is building high speed charging stations along highway service areas.
    11531075284qea.jpg

    Key points:

    • 4x 120 kilowatts DC. Chinese GB standard.
    • 8 charging plugs per location.
    • Cost: 0.65-0.8 yuan per kWh (10-13 Dollar cent).
    • About to open the Beijing-Shanghai line (1262 km), with charger every 50 km on average.
    • Jiangsu section (close to Shanghai): 11 locations in 6 cities: Suzhou, Wuxi, Taizhou, Yangzhou, Huai'an and Suqian.


    Full text google translate:
    Source (Chinese)
     
  2. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

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    They are going to have one service attendant per charger?

    I know Chinese labor rates are cheap by Western standards but geesh.
     
  3. ScepticMatt

    ScepticMatt Member

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    haha I think thats just for the official opening where they tested 5 cars to 'break the ice'
     
  4. LakeForest

    LakeForest Member

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    Sounds very similar to superchargers. Honestly awesome! China needs EVs bad. It will be interesting to see if Tesla is able to come up with an adapter. I imagine the utility could roll these out pretty rapidly if the powers that be want them.

    Now I'm just waiting for a seeking alpha article about Model S not being compatible, which will lead to the timely collapse of Tesla. As a side note, they'll probably refer us to an article about the new unicorn manufacturing co.-- thats where the industry is going!
     
  5. vgrinshpun

    vgrinshpun Active Member

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    Guarantees that there will be no ICEing...
     
  6. renim

    renim Member

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    The car in the background is a Nissan LEAF ( Venucia e30 )

    Must be Chinese standard charging. quote is 60km in 5 minutes
     
  7. jhm

    jhm Active Member

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    Is it technically possible to charge a small battery like that on a LEAF at 120 kW without damaging the battery? The last 20% of a 85 kWh Model S pack can't safely be charged at that rate.

    It sounds like they may simply using Tesla's technology, which Tesla is quite willing to share, and this would be excellent for the emergence of a Tesla ecosystem in China.
     
  8. ScepticMatt

    ScepticMatt Member

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    Less powerful cars will just charge slower.
    No. Chinese national standard ("GB").
     
  9. drinkerofkoolaid

    drinkerofkoolaid Active Member

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    #9 drinkerofkoolaid, Jan 12, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2015
    Something tells me electric vehicles made by Chinese manufacturers will not be able to safely charge at the same rate of Tesla's vehicles, unless the Chinese manufacturers work with Tesla to make sure it is done correctly. China offers up to $20,000 in subsidies for electric vehicles produced by Chinese companies, making it possible for Chinese companies to sell relatively safe $30,000 electric vehicles to people who would otherwise be forced to drive very small and very unsafe vehicles that by definition aren't considered cars. I suspect Elon open sourcing Tesla's patents created a lot of good will and face for Tesla in China that will be very beneficial when establishing partnerships. It's possible Tesla has already signed deals that we haven't heard about yet.

    Does Tesla own the Superchargers that billionaires in China purchased from Tesla to speed up the deploying of the Supercharge network?
    Businessman Creates Tesla 'Charging Road' From Beijing to Guangzhou

    I recall hearing about other cases.

    Who owns the land the Superchargers are placed at? Does anyone know if Tesla covers the full cost of installing Superchargers on private lots?
     
  10. republic

    republic Member

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    The Beijing-Guangzhou route uses HPWCs. I haven't heard of any independently sourced Superchargers yet.
     
  11. drinkerofkoolaid

    drinkerofkoolaid Active Member

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    #11 drinkerofkoolaid, Jan 12, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2015
    Tesla in deal with China Unicom to add 400 charging stations in China - WSJ
    Tesla Signs Deal With China Unicom on Charging Points - Bloomberg

    According to this, China Unicom provides the land, Tesla provides the Superchargers.

    "The [Chinese] central government is considering providing as much as 100 billion yuan ($16 billion) to build charging facilities and spur demand for clean cars, according to two people familiar with the matter."

    Anyone who knows fluent Chinese know anything else about this? It seems like Europe and Asia are making tens of billions, if not hundreds of billions of dollars available for the type of technology Tesla is producing.
     
  12. jhm

    jhm Active Member

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  13. Familial Rhino

    Familial Rhino Endangerous Herbivore

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    It's an old article from Aug 2014. I haven't read it, but you can access it if you take the first link returned by this search.
     
  14. ScepticMatt

    ScepticMatt Member

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    Old article that has nothing to do with the chinese standard fast chargers.
    This is mostly about the fast growing destination charging program in China:

    目的地充电站 | Tesla Motors
     
  15. chickensevil

    chickensevil Active Member

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    Yes, but the Chinese standard may just be an adaption of a current standard. When Tesla was trying to get standard L2 to work by their standards they said it was very similar to European standards so there wasn't much they needed to change. It is very likely a Chademo plug since it is plugged into a Leaf in the background (or whatever the Chinese version of the leaf is) so I assume Tesla should be able to make something that works with it just as well.

    I am not really worried. Sounds good all around!
     
  16. ScepticMatt

    ScepticMatt Member

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    #16 ScepticMatt, Jan 16, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2015
    From autohome:
    The cars tested were BYD E6, BYD Denza, Beiqi EV200, Nissan Venucia.
    So no car capable of using the full 120 kW.

    500_27087790-3480-92h86k8z.jpg
    ..., now charging
    charge level: 50% charging current 118A
    ... time 0 hours 54 minutes
    500_27385080-3487-e593css6.jpg
    now charging...
    charging voltage: 313.3 V
    charging current: 74.9 A
    ... 6.62 capacity
    charging time: 15 minutes
    total charging time: 1 hour 55 minutes
     
  17. chickensevil

    chickensevil Active Member

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    Thanks for also including translations on the text!

    Yeah, I don't think it is a shock that they didn't have a car to show using the full 120kW. But the fact that it works on all those cars, which have been DC capable for a while, makes me think that they are either just using an adaption of Chademo (theoretically it is capable of more than 50kW) or some other type.

    Since the car software has to include some kind of talking and negotiation with the outlet, the car should request how much power it is currently able to draw and request that amount. This is why a Model S doesn't always draw 120kW, and even your 240V outlet in your house, it doesn't always draw 100% of the power. It is just like any other electrical equipment, it draws the power it needs at the time. Otherwise when you plug your PC into the wall you would instantly use up all 15A of power... which just doesn't happen.

    So as long as you have an adapter to fit the plug AND you can communicate with the service over their protocol, I don't see why this would be any issue for Tesla to be able to make something that works for their chargers.
     
  18. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

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    Well, it may be protected by licensing fees which might not be acquirable by a foreign car manufacturer. So, yes, technically possible, but in practice?

    Also, I sure would like to test these with a car that could actually draw 120kW to see if they really work at that level.
     
  19. uselesslogin

    uselesslogin Enthusiast

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    Well Nissan is foreign, right?
     
  20. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

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    That "Nissan" car is manufactured by a Chinese-Nissan joint venture partnership in China.
     

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