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China To Follow California’s ZEV Credit Program

RobStark

Well-Known Member
Jul 2, 2013
10,724
56,636
Los Angeles, USA
A California-style scheme convincing manufacturers to introduce and produce models with higher fuel economy/low emission is being considered in China.

There is an idea to distribute credits in China, much like in California.


The highest number of credits would be available for all-electric cars, fewer for plug-in hybrids and the least for non-rechargable hybrids.


Credits will not be available for selling conventional cars, while worst models will be fined with negative credits.


http://insideevs.com/china-follow-californias-zev-credit-program/

It seems no credits for fuel cell vehicles no matter how loudly Toyota complains. :biggrin:

Good thing BYD,Elux, and other Chinese automakers are pursuing BEV tech.
 

FredTMC

Model S VIN #4925
Dec 26, 2012
3,492
3,792
Orange County CA
A California-style scheme convincing manufacturers to introduce and produce models with higher fuel economy/low emission is being considered in China.

There is an idea to distribute credits in China, much like in California.


The highest number of credits would be available for all-electric cars, fewer for plug-in hybrids and the least for non-rechargable hybrids.


Credits will not be available for selling conventional cars, while worst models will be fined with negative credits.


http://insideevs.com/china-follow-californias-zev-credit-program/

It seems no credits for fuel cell vehicles no matter how loudly Toyota complains. :biggrin:

Good thing BYD,Elux, and other Chinese automakers are pursuing BEV tech.

Very nice. Thx for posting
 

Johan

Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
Feb 9, 2012
7,496
9,893
Drammen, Norway
Good stuff. We all know how "fond" the Chinese are of the Japanese so not surprised they're excluding the hydrogen fraud. Also it could go to show China may in some instances less corrupt than the US (in this case than CARB).
 

Kandiru

Active Member
Oct 20, 2014
1,274
490
USA
Yuck on the usage of the word 'scheme', which tends to have a negative connotation for people.

In communism you don't stick your head above the sardine box or it'll get chopped off, one rule one nation. Everything is centrally decided.
 

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
10,965
6,066
Good stuff. We all know how "fond" the Chinese are of the Japanese so not surprised they're excluding the hydrogen fraud. Also it could go to show China may in some instances less corrupt than the US (in this case than CARB).
Actually, it's not anti-Japanese, but rather that China does not allow the use of type 4 tanks (the same type in the Toyota Mirai) for safety reasons. Type 4 is a carbon fiber tank with polymer liner and China had a couple incidences of failure and a subsequent examination of existing tanks found huge number not meeting safety requirements. The Hyundai Tuscon/ix35 FCV however uses a type 3 tank (carbon fiber tank with metal liner) which is allowed.

China did experiment with hydrogen for the Olympics, but I think they saw that for the same amount of subsidies spent, BEVs are far more effective and practical (even in heavier duty vehicles like buses). Also, in China, CNG is more popular so I'm guessing they don't see a huge advantage with replacing that with hydrogen reformed from natural gas.
 
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RobStark

Well-Known Member
Jul 2, 2013
10,724
56,636
Los Angeles, USA
Actually, it's not anti-Japanese, but rather that China does not allow the use of type 4 tanks (the same type in the Tesla Mirai) for safety reasons. Type 4 is a carbon fiber tank with polymer liner and China had a couple incidences of failure and a subsequent examination of existing tanks found huge number not meeting safety requirements. The Hyundai Tuscon/ix35 FCV however uses a type 3 tank (carbon fiber tank with metal liner) which is allowed.

China did experiment with hydrogen for the Olympics, but I think they saw that for the same amount of subsidies spent, BEVs are far more effective and practical (even in heavier duty vehicles like buses). Also, in China CNG is more popular so I'm guessing they don't see a huge advantage with replacing that with a hydrogen reformed from natural gas.

China will be not be subsidizing FCEV with Type 3 tanks.

Any mediocre mind with moderate knowledge of chemistry and physics knows H2 Fuel Cells is a boondoggle.

Yet the Japanese Government is giving more incentives to FCEV than BEV.

So is CARB. So was the US government until BEV incentives expired. Maybe it will again.

Norway gives FCEV the same preferential tax and incentive treatment as BEV.

It is hard not to see, at least in part, that the Chinese government's decision is a rejection of Toyota's interest and therefore Japan's interest.

I think it is happy coincidence that Chinese corporate interest, Chinese National interest and humanity's interest happen to align on the issue.

Chinese companies would find it almost impossible to catch up to Japanese and Western low emission ICE technology and FCEV technology.

Not so with the much more simple BEV tech and they already have a rechargeable battery industry. And large lithium,graphite, and deposits of other minerals that might be needed for BEV batteries.

Anywhere on the planet BEV incentives make much more sense than FCEV incentives.

Yet, AFAIK, the Chinese are the only ones giving BEV a major advantage over FCEV.

In part at least, that is Chinese anti-Japanese feelings coming through.
 
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stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
10,965
6,066
Yet, AFAIK, the Chinese are the only ones giving BEV a major advantage over FCEV.

In part at least, that is Chinese anti-Japanese feelings coming through.
I think they are pushing BEV more simply because they see it as a more practical solution, not because the Japanese are pushing it. Even before the recent push for hydrogen by the Japanese, the Chinese had all but written off FCVs as a viable solution. The government isn't willing to spend the massive amounts of money for the hydrogen infrastructure, while EVs can live off existing infrastructure.
 

RobStark

Well-Known Member
Jul 2, 2013
10,724
56,636
Los Angeles, USA
I think they are pushing BEV more simply because they see it as a more practical solution, not because the Japanese are pushing it. Even before the recent push for hydrogen by the Japanese, the Chinese had all but written off FCVs as a viable solution. The government isn't willing to spend the massive amounts of money for the hydrogen infrastructure, while EVs can live off existing infrastructure.

BEVs are a more practical solution everywhere.

Every country has a more developed electrical grid than a hydrogen infrastructure. Everywhere, building a hydrogen infrastructure is massively expensive.

Despite that the Japanese Government has been promoting the Hydrogen Economy/Society for a very long time.

Even bullying pro BEV Nissan into having their own FCEV program and collaborating with other Japanese companies on the Hydrogen Economy.

Yet the Chinese are the only exception to the promotion of Hydrogen over BEVs.

I think any objective observer will see nationalism as part of the equation that makes China the exception.
 

Johan

Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
Feb 9, 2012
7,496
9,893
Drammen, Norway
BEVs are a more practical solution everywhere.

Every country has a more developed electrical grid than a hydrogen infrastructure. Everywhere, building a hydrogen infrastructure is massively expensive.

Despite that the Japanese Government has been promoting the Hydrogen Economy/Society for a very long time.

Even bullying pro BEV Nissan into having their own FCEV program and collaborating with other Japanese companies on the Hydrogen Economy.

Yet the Chinese are the only exception to the promotion of Hydrogen over BEVs.

I think any objective observer will see nationalism as part of the equation that makes China the exception.

Agreed. While I do agree with stopcrazypp that EVs just make more sense period, in this instance that view lines up well with the Chinese anti-Japan sentiments.
 

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