Choosing new or remanufactured battery pack.

[kabiblueline]

I hit a large rock which punctured my 2018 LR Model3 battery pack. Insurance has agreed to replace the pack with a new one (and other minor repair work.)
The Tesla Service Center is telling me that they can't guarantee I will get a new pack - they might replace it with a remanufactured one.
According to them, they submit a request to the system detailing year, make, model of car, and it matches them with an available pack and it gets sent to them. They have no ability to specifically request new only.

Since my insurance has approved the cost of a new pack, I REALLY don't want a remanufactured pack to be substituted.

Does this sound correct (not being able to ensure a new pack)?
Any idea how I can help ensure I get a new one?

 

[Rocky_H]

The Tesla Service Center is telling me that they can't guarantee I will get a new pack - they might replace it with a remanufactured one.
According to them, they submit a request to the system detailing year, make, model of car, and it matches them with an available pack and it gets sent to them. They have no ability to specifically request new only.

Since my insurance has approved the cost of a new pack, I REALLY don't want a remanufactured pack to be substituted.

Does this sound correct (not being able to ensure a new pack)?
Any idea how I can help ensure I get a new one?

You can't. That's just the way it is. Warranty replacement things for any kind of car repair from any brand are serviceable, functional parts, but not necessarily new.

 

[kabiblueline]

right, but this isn't warranty replacement.

My insurance has approved (and I am requesting) a new replacement pack. I am paying the full cost of replacement.

 

[Twon]

That is an odd predicament that I would have never imagined being an issue.

If you don’t have control over it, then move on to the more important questions for Tesla.

1) Does a remanufactured battery provide the same distance as a new pack?

2) Does a remanufactured battery pack have the same degradation guarantees as a new one?

If both those answers are “yes” and in writing, I would be ok with it. Because those are really your main concerns about remanufactured, right?

 

[3sr+buyer]

1) Does a remanufactured battery provide the same distance as a new pack?

2) Does a remanufactured battery pack have the same degradation guarantees as a new one?

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/tesla-new-vehicle-limited-warranty-en-us.pdf says that, for warranty replacements, "when replacing a Battery, Tesla will ensure that the energy capacity of the replacement Battery is at least equal to that of the original Battery before the failure occurred while taking into consideration other factors, including the age and mileage of the vehicle."

If the battery for other repair purposes comes through the same Tesla supply chain as warranty replacement batteries, it is likely to be similar in this respect. If so, that suggests that the replacement pack will be no worse than the original pack before the damage, but is not guaranteed to be a new pack or like-new in capacity.

 

[Rocky_H]

right, but this isn't warranty replacement.

My insurance has approved (and I am requesting) a new replacement pack. I am paying the full cost of replacement.

Oooh, hmm. That's I guess a bit greyer than I had thought of. It seems like which end of the telescope one is looking through. You and the insurance company are willing to pay for new, but from Tesla's end, replacing a battery pack is just replacing a battery pack, and "warranty-like" is just how they do it, and they may not offer choices. I guess it would come down to just talking to people and escalating and trying to convince them, but it's strange why Tesla wouldn't want to go for that, since they can sell a more expensive part.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

It’s not clear how many 2170 cell lines Tesla still has operating so it does seem like sourcing of 2170 packs that are brand new could be a problem. Maybe they use the 2170s for their power walls (I don’t know)? Certainly it seems that most (all?) new NCA packs in the US are using 2170L, so can’t be much vehicle production line consumption of 2170.

I’d just make a note, while you can, of the exact status of your old pack energy content and understand the warranty coverage on the “new” one (and whether that coverage would differ for the ephemeral “brand new” one). It sounds like you might not have much choice, which is frustrating since you’re not directly paying for it (seems that the cost is about $4k different). Best to assess the old kWh capacity and just ensure the “new” one will exceed that if you really have no choice. On the upside a remanufactured pack will hopefully lose capacity more slowly than a new pack, since it has already lost capacity.

It should be pretty easy to ensure that the replacement meets or exceeds the old pack’s energy since the understanding of pack health is so well understood and so easily tracked.

 

[BobDolesGhost]

I would raise a huge stink and escalate this as high as you can go in Tesla's management hierarchy. Tweet Elon as well (though probability of him seeing/acting on it is 0.000000001%). My insurance is paying for brand new battery - get me a brand new battery or I am devoting every minute of my life for the next few years complaining to every person that will listen

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

My insurance is paying for brand new battery

The insurance won’t pay for a new battery if they don’t end up installing a new battery. They’ll pay the $12k rather than the $15-$16k. Obviously this is not a situation where it’s possible to play games and Tesla is not going to do that anyway since that would be arguably fraudulent. There’s not any ambiguity on whether a new or reman pack was installed - everyone involved can tell.

 

[3sr+buyer]

The insurance won’t pay for a new battery if they don’t end up installing a new battery. They’ll pay the $12k rather than the $15-$16k. Obviously this is not a situation where it’s possible to play games and Tesla is not going to do that anyway since that would be arguably fraudulent. There’s not any ambiguity on whether a new or reman pack was installed - everyone involved can tell.

Arguably, if insurance pays for the remanufactured pack and it is at least as good capacity-wise as the old pack before the damage, then it has restored the car to the pre-damage state.

Of course, the customer could get lucky and end up with more capacity than before.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

It is unfortunate that Tesla doesn’t offer 2170L pack replacement. Maybe some day! Probably not though…will depend on how long the 2170 form factor lasts. 4680 I guess at some point could take over and then 2170 and 2170L would be obsolete I suppose. Guess we will see!

 

[ucmndd]

It is unfortunate that Tesla doesn’t offer 2170L pack replacement. Maybe some day! Probably not though…will depend on how long the 2170 form factor lasts. 4680 I guess at some point could take over and then 2170 and 2170L would be obsolete I suppose. Guess we will see!

What is a 2170L?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

What is a 2170L?

The newer higher capacity 2170 batteries which have a few % more capacity. They’re used in all the NCA Model 3s now.

 

[ucmndd]

The newer higher capacity 2170 batteries which have a few % more capacity. They’re used in all the NCA Model 3s now.

Ok, so chemistry change - not really form factor…

This has happened a few times over the course of the 18650’s life as well

 

[Hiline]

Does anyone know how Tesla builds a re-manufactured battery pack and how a re-manufactured pack typically behaves in terms of degradation and reliability? Has anyone had a re-manufactured pack fail?

 

[hohensee]

I hit a large rock which punctured my 2018 LR Model3 battery pack. Insurance has agreed to replace the pack with a new one (and other minor repair work.)
The Tesla Service Center is telling me that they can't guarantee I will get a new pack - they might replace it with a remanufactured one.
According to them, they submit a request to the system detailing year, make, model of car, and it matches them with an available pack and it gets sent to them. They have no ability to specifically request new only.

Since my insurance has approved the cost of a new pack, I REALLY don't want a remanufactured pack to be substituted.

Does this sound correct (not being able to ensure a new pack)?
Any idea how I can help ensure I get a new one?

 

[hohensee]

I very nearly had an identical issue. I hit a rock with 102k miles on the car. With a $1k deductible insurance approved Tesla's estimate and a replacement battery was installed.

Frankly, I fully expected a new battery replacement. But I found out only after the install that Tesla replaced it with a remanufactured battery. And for the real kicker, the newly installed remanufactured replacement battery showed an 11% degradation from a new battery!

I was shocked. I called Tesla. They explained that yes, it was a remanufactured battery they used (they did not tell me beforehand). And that it was "their policy" to replace a damaged battery with a battery that delivered an equivalent amount of charge. I was floored. I most certainly would have chosen a new battery regardless of the cost. But because I found all this out only afterward I was left with very little recall.

The total cost of the repair was $11,333.80. It was $9,923.80 in parts, $1,410 in labor. The battery p/n was listed as "ASY,HVBAT,75KWH,AWD-RWD,1PH,RMN(1137375-01-K) for $9,000. I now learn the RMN in the part number refers to "remanufactured".

I have Tesla's repair invoice if interested.

 

[hohensee]

That is an odd predicament that I would have never imagined being an issue.

If you don’t have control over it, then move on to the more important questions for Tesla.

1) Does a remanufactured battery provide the same distance as a new pack?

2) Does a remanufactured battery pack have the same degradation guarantees as a new one?

If both those answers are “yes” and in writing, I would be ok with it. Because those are really your main concerns about remanufactured, right?

I can definitively confirm that the remanufactured battery they used in my repair (insurance, non-warranty) did NOT provide the same distance as a new battery. The remanufactured battery delivered 11% fewer miles than a new battery.

 

[3sr+buyer]

I can definitively confirm that the remanufactured battery they used in my repair (insurance, non-warranty) did NOT provide the same distance as a new battery. The remanufactured battery delivered 11% fewer miles than a new battery.

How did it compare in capacity to the battery it replaced (before it needed to be replaced)?

I.e. did the replacement battery restore your car's battery capacity to at least as good as it was before hitting the rock?

 

[hohensee]

How did it compare in capacity to the battery it replaced (before it needed to be replaced)?

I.e. did the replacement battery restore your car's battery capacity to at least as good as it was before hitting the rock?

Within only a couple of miles, the remanufactured battery and the damaged battery that it replaced were equivalent. Both had a range of about 277 miles at 100% charge (11% degradation from new).

I get that it might be Tesla's policy to replace a damaged battery with an equivalent rather than a new battery. But I should like to have known in advance. And should have liked to have been given the option to pay a bit more for a new vs. reman'd battery.