Choosing NEW vs. CPO HELP!

[boshk]

Consider the 3rd option: Tesla "inventory" cars. You get the full tax credit, new vehicle financing & lease rates... and a decent or sometimes very significant discount (typically end of month, quarter or when new model released).

We bought our 2015 P85D as an "inventory" car from our local Tesla showroom in the mall and saved 10% vs. buying new... and it was only 4 months old and only had 2,900 miles on it. This entitled us to 1.43% interest on our 60-month loan, $7,500 federal tax credit, $2,500 state EV rebate, $400 SoCal Edison EV rebate... and a Ludicrous upgrade (now a P85D) for $5,000 just like a "new" Tesla would.

The 10% discount basically meant we bought a P85D for almost the same price as a non-Performance 85D which would have delivered FAR fewer "smiles per mile".

YMMV

Inventory stock as in Tesla's demo/showroom stock?
Did you have to ask or was it listed on the US website?

 

[Ostrichsak]

I wouldn't say so. You can't trust either system to be fully autonomous, and AP1 has done just fine for highway trips and stop and go traffic. Until I can completely (legally) ignore the road in front of me, I think all the systems are more or less the same for my purposes.

Not to mention that, up until recently, AP1 even outperformed AP2 in the exact day-to-day use case you describe. AP2 has caught up in development but there are still things that AP1 does better than AP2 but the people who spent much more on a car for AP2 would rather act like this isn't the case.

 

[2101Guy]

Own a 2017 90D with FSD with AP2 and enhanced auto pilot. Love it.

But, had a 2015 (or 2014) P85D with 70k miles for a weekend (loaner). Ap1.

LOVED it. That acceleration in Insane+ mode? Absurd. And the car felt rock solid. No rattles, squeaks. Brake, steering, suspension. Felt tight as new.

 

[BulldogsRus]

Having bought used 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016 (2016.5 specifically) Model S cars I can say that 2015 is the sweet spot of all used Model S in my opinion on bang-for-your buck. They fixed a lot of little things to equal better quality of life that is noticeable for not much more money relatively speaking. Newer than that, the things they "fixed" don't equal anywhere near the premium you pay IMHO. Our 2016 is a refresh which is a close 2nd but I feel like the 2017, 2018 & 2019 cars still cost WAY too much for what you get in terms of day-to-day quality-of-life improvement.

So true, the only 'issue' I found was it didn't have the refreshed front end.

 

[Ostrichsak]

Own a 2017 90D with FSD with AP2 and enhanced auto pilot. Love it.

But, had a 2015 (or 2014) P85D with 70k miles for a weekend (loaner). Ap1.

LOVED it. That acceleration in Insane+ mode? Absurd. And the car felt rock solid. No rattles, squeaks. Brake, steering, suspension. Felt tight as new.

Your post is a great example of what I try to explain to people. Sure, in a perfect world money is of no concern and you would just buy whatever the latest greatest is. In most people's world though money makes a difference. The two vehicles you mention are a prime example of how you can get something that is as much (or more) fun to own on a day-to-day basis for less money. This is the decision I've made multiple times over now and I haven't regretted going that route and saving all of the money. My P85D with all the bells and whistles is WAY more fun to own than some 75D that's a couple of years newer with limited features/options that would have cost me $10k more. People go on and on about how imperative AP2 is to own but they don't even explain things in terms of enjoyment versus expense to justify the value they're selling.

 

[2101Guy]

Your post is a great example of what I try to explain to people. Sure, in a perfect world money is of no concern and you would just buy whatever the latest greatest is. In most people's world though money makes a difference. The two vehicles you mention are a prime example of how you can get something that is as much (or more) fun to own on a day-to-day basis for less money. This is the decision I've made multiple times over now and I haven't regretted going that route and saving all of the money. My P85D with all the bells and whistles is WAY more fun to own than some 75D that's a couple of years newer with limited features/options that would have cost me $10k more. People go on and on about how imperative AP2 is to own but they don't even explain things in terms of enjoyment versus expense to justify the value they're selling.

Agreed. The posts (common on here and on FB) where a person is seeking advice on an Ap1/MCU1 car that's a 75D, most likely has a price limit they have personally set for themselves. While its helpful to point out facts about the car, I always wonder if its helpful for the replies of "hey, for only $60k more you can get FSD, Ludicrous +, and a new car warranty". Not everyone wants or needs every single option...on any car, regardless of brand. As it relates to Tesla..just going from an ICE to Tesla is a giant leap forwards, in my opinion. Especially if you are talking a P model with D at the end..

 

[Ostrichsak]

So true, the only 'issue' I found was it didn't have the refreshed front end.

I like the look of the refresh but for me it's not a deal-breaker. For some Tesla people it's refresh or bust which means you'll pay a premium on that premium buying used. This means the inverse is also true that the pre-fresh cars can be had at a deeper discount and therefore a better "deal" or value on your buying dollar. The funny part is that non-Tesla people don't even notice the difference and when I point it out most actually say they prefer the nose-cone version to the smoother version. I get that some are willing to pay a premium to get a certain car that looks a certain way but it's tough to deny that the best value can be had in the pre-fresh models that are 95% of the car of the ones costing tens of thousands of dollars more. Heck, one can even get MORE car for much less money as was described in the older P85D v newer 75D scenario above.

 

[Ostrichsak]

Agreed. The posts (common on here and on FB) where a person is seeking advice on an Ap1/MCU1 car that's a 75D, most likely has a price limit they have personally set for themselves. While its helpful to point out facts about the car, I always wonder if its helpful for the replies of "hey, for only $60k more you can get FSD, Ludicrous +, and a new car warranty". Not everyone wants or needs every single option...on any car, regardless of brand. As it relates to Tesla..just going from an ICE to Tesla is a giant leap forwards, in my opinion. Especially if you are talking a P model with D at the end..

Nail on the head.

It's almost as if they're trying to justify their over-spending to themselves more than convincing someone else to do the same.

 

[BulldogsRus]

I like the look of the refresh but for me it's not a deal-breaker. For some Tesla people it's refresh or bust which means you'll pay a premium on that premium buying used. This means the inverse is also true that the pre-fresh cars can be had at a deeper discount and therefore a better "deal" or value on your buying dollar. The funny part is that non-Tesla people don't even notice the difference and when I point it out most actually say they prefer the nose-cone version to the smoother version. I get that some are willing to pay a premium to get a certain car that looks a certain way but it's tough to deny that the best value can be had in the pre-fresh models that are 95% of the car of the ones costing tens of thousands of dollars more. Heck, one can even get MORE car for much less money as was described in the older P85D v newer 75D scenario above.

Very true! I def. have a list of MUSTS and that isn't really at the top, but I wouldn't mind having it all things considered.

 

[LCR1]

I'd get Used. You still get the same 4yr 50K warranty but since it's on a used car with more mileage you're likely to have some of the more expensive things replaced that die between the 50-100K mark. I Bought mine with 43K and I was using the warranty all the way up to 93K earlier this year. You're losing free supercharging when buying used unless you get a 100D but you'd have to supercharge 160K miles to make up $10,000 when I did the math last, only you can decide what that one is worth.

doing a quick search on https://ev-cpo.com/hunter/ shows a few of these

2016 P100D loaded for $68.5K 29K miles AP1
2016 Model S | Tesla

2016 P100D loaded for $68.6K 41K miles AP2
2016 Model S | Tesla

2017 100D loaded for $71.3K 41K miles FSD
2017 Model S | Tesla

Then you get into the deals but no free supercharging

2016 old style 90D Loaded $47.5K 39K miles AP1
2016 Model S | Tesla

2016 New style 90D Loaded $52.4K 58K miles AP1. This one is covered bumper to bumper until 108K miles
2016 Model S | Tesla

So you can see you're saving 20K or so getting a used 100D but if you can sacrifice a little more range you can get a used 90D for about half of what a new car costs. I've put just over 50K on my car in the last 2 years and AP1 does everything I want it to do.

 

[Ostrichsak]

I'd get Used. You still get the same 4yr 50K warranty but since it's on a used car with more mileage you're likely to have some of the more expensive things replaced that die between the 50-100K mark. I Bought mine with 43K and I was using the warranty all the way up to 93K earlier this year. You're losing free supercharging when buying used unless you get a 100D but you'd have to supercharge 160K miles to make up $10,000 when I did the math last, only you can decide what that one is worth.

doing a quick search on https://ev-cpo.com/hunter/ shows a few of these

2016 P100D loaded for $68.5K 29K miles AP1
2016 Model S | Tesla

2016 P100D loaded for $68.6K 41K miles AP2
2016 Model S | Tesla

2017 100D loaded for $71.3K 41K miles FSD
2017 Model S | Tesla

Then you get into the deals but no free supercharging

2016 old style 90D Loaded $47.5K 39K miles AP1
2016 Model S | Tesla

2016 New style 90D Loaded $52.4K 58K miles AP1. This one is covered bumper to bumper until 108K miles
2016 Model S | Tesla

So you can see you're saving 20K or so getting a used 100D but if you can sacrifice a little more range you can get a used 90D for about half of what a new car costs. I've put just over 50K on my car in the last 2 years and AP1 does everything I want it to do.

Another alternative is to find a well-cared-for used car from a private seller if unlimited free Supercharging for life is important to you. If you buy one that was a previous CPO or used car sold by Tesla you'd essentially get the best of both worlds: FUSC and Tesla warranty. Added bonus is you don't have to deal with Tesla used car sales which is a horrendous experience according to most accounts to include mine first hand.. three times.

Also, to expand on what was said above regarding sacrificing a little range, if you don't need that 270-290 miles of range of a 90D you can even look at 70D/75D cars which would allow you to shop for a great deal in a much lower price tier. Of course, you're talking mid 200-mile range and lower so that may not be an option for some. If it is though there's cars there that would effectively be identical otherwise only $10k less expensive, more features/options or maybe even both.

I see lots of people who have a certain budget and lots of times they seem hell-bent on spending every penny of that and with Tesla cars I don't think that's necessary.

 

[LCR1]

Another alternative is to find a well-cared-for used car from a private seller if unlimited free Supercharging for life is important to you. If you buy one that was a previous CPO or used car sold by Tesla you'd essentially get the best of both worlds: FUSC and Tesla warranty. Added bonus is you don't have to deal with Tesla used car sales which is a horrendous experience according to most accounts to include mine first hand.. three times.

Also, to expand on what was said above regarding sacrificing a little range, if you don't need that 270-290 miles of range of a 90D you can even look at 70D/75D cars which would allow you to shop for a great deal in a much lower price tier. Of course, you're talking mid 200-mile range and lower so that may not be an option for some. If it is though there's cars there that would effectively be identical otherwise only $10k less expensive, more features/options or maybe even both.

I see lots of people who have a certain budget and lots of times they seem hell-bent on spending every penny of that and with Tesla cars I don't think that's necessary.

Yep, I have a 2015 70D and it works for 99% of my needs. It's the times when I go to out of the way trips that I barely or sometimes don't even have the range and i'd like to see the range of the 90D But here's some examples for the OP if that's not an issue.

70D - 240 miles new - I get 220 with 95K miles
75D - 259
90D - 294
100D - 335
P100D - 315


2015 70D 34K miles $42K and AP1
2016 Model S | Tesla

2016 75D 35K miles $43K AP1
2016 Model S | Tesla

So another 5 - $10K savings from a 90D if you drop to a 70/75. You can get the non dual motors for a few thousand less if you don't need/want it but you take a range hit as well. And I only looked at ones that had Premium upgrade package since the car is kind of useless.

The other option and what i'm looking in to doing is driving my 70D for a few more years and then either buying a newer one or getting a 3rd party battery upgrade like Wk057 has offered.

 

[Ostrichsak]

Yep, I have a 2015 70D and it works for 99% of my needs. It's the times when I go to out of the way trips that I barely or sometimes don't even have the range and i'd like to see the range of the 90D But here's some examples for the OP if that's not an issue.

70D - 240 miles new - I get 220 with 95K miles
75D - 259
90D - 294
100D - 335
P100D - 315


2015 70D 34K miles $42K and AP1
2016 Model S | Tesla

2016 75D 35K miles $43K AP1
2016 Model S | Tesla

So another 5 - $10K savings from a 90D if you drop to a 70/75. You can get the non dual motors for a few thousand less if you don't need/want it but you take a range hit as well. And I only looked at ones that had Premium upgrade package since the car is kind of useless.

The other option and what i'm looking in to doing is driving my 70D for a few more years and then either buying a newer one or getting a 3rd party battery upgrade like Wk057 has offered.

It sounds like the car you currently own is nearly identical to the one we're currently selling. That 1% you mention is the only reason we're selling it because one of our hobbies is driving all over the country and the 90D is just more suited to that 1% use. If it wasn't for that we'd keep the 2015 70D with about 95k miles because it's a phenomenal car.

If the OP can be honest with themselves about what they truly need for range they can save tens of thousands of dollars most likely. Even for occasional road trips the 70D works just fine.

 

[2101Guy]

Long time lurker, first time poster:

Have decided to purchase a Model S but am completely stuck between CPO and New. We are a "drive cars till they fall apart" family with 3 kids: 16, 13, 7. The appeal of the S is that we can fit 3 kids in the back seat without a hump and the big trunk space. The trunk space also allows for youth hockey gear.

We also like the rear facing seats in older models for the next 2 years for the 7 year old, in a pinch. Its not a deal breaker but it is a factor - understanding it will be used 2 - 5 times per year or so (not in the summer - i get that).

I can get a used 2016 P100D CPO for ~ high 70s OR a NEW 2020 LR for 92k. Very curious for any and all opinions. Absolutely stuck.

thanks

To get back to the original post...

This appears to be a relatively new buying service. But I noticed this 2017 100D. Not the "P" model, but for the miles and year..not bad pricing.

Used 2017 Tesla Model S For Sale ($68,060) | Vroom

 

[liludiivert]

I faced the same question as you a few months back. After comparing a friends 2016 MS to a 2019 (at the time) I personally thought the much better air suspension and range really sealed the deal for me. Id say this is especially important if you plan to run the car into the ground. You'll appreciate the extra range and efficiency the raven cars will provide over your ownership. My guess is they'll get even better over the next year or two where as 2016s are more or less at the end of their upgradability through software updates. Either way you’ll have a great car, just thought Id explain the logic I went through. Oh and lifetime free supercharging is great as well...

 

[ekendahl]

As of today, an (AP2/)MCU1 car might be even more attractive. Just budget $2500 for the MCU2 upgrade and you basically get all the electronic features of a new car. I know that my _gamble_ with a AP2/MCU1 car turned out a little better than I dared to hope (I never bought into the idea floated here that Tesla needed MCU2 for FSD).

 

[greenroomhoo]

Wow - everyone thank you so much for the advice and thoughts (and taking the time to write them down). I really appreciate all of the perspectives. The reason I am leaning "used" is that i get stuck on paying 90k for a new car (mentally), and if I can get that number to a "reasonable" 60k.....

Range is important, but I have to be realistic. My longest roundtrips during a typical year will be 200 miles. 1-3 times per year I will do 250 mile roundtrips, which probably requires charging in used options (probably fine in a new vehicle), but the charging need will be quick. 95% of my use will be 50 miles per day (or less) with a lot of parking at the airport for 4 days.

For my purposes, a 70ish K used P100D with rear facing seats 'feels' like the right trade-off between age/cost and adds in a lot of FUN. It might also have enough range to cover all my uses without charging. I am nervous about "less" warranty/coverage but perhaps that is irrational? I might go even further down in range but hold the '16 vintage...

How do people feel about the "interior" sacrifice of used vs. the new interiors? (note we are a family that is very hard on cars).

 

[dannycamps]

How do people feel about the "interior" sacrifice of used vs. the new interiors? (note we are a family that is very hard on cars).

I can speak to this. I am in your boat with three kids (15, 13, 8) so the rear-facing seat was important to me in my purchase decision so my kids would have some much needed separation on the longer trips (which has worked out BEAUTIFULLY).

I jumped in with a 2015 85D with only 16k miles on it in pristine condition which I scored at the time for $52k. Unfortunately a month later, it was demolished in a wreck. At the time, the only viable replacement with rear facing seats was a unicorn inventory 2019 100D I found so I quickly pulled the trigger on that.

There was not as big of a difference between the 2015 and 2019 interior as I would've thought. Generally they were pretty comparable with pros and cons to each. I find the figured ash in the 2019 more modern looking than the carbon fiber in the 2015 (personal preference) but I liked the alcantara-lined dash in the 2015 more. Seats are the same, both has the center console (option on the 2015), the 2015 was missing the rear cup holders and USB ports. Obviously the MCU1 vs. MCU2 thing is noticeable. More range is always better but given your commute your charging would be the same regardless most likely.

A note on the rear facing seats - they are surprisingly versatile and my oldest kid and his friends actually like to sit back there whenever they ride with us. Interesting to see a 5'10" 15 year old sitting back there but he's comfortable and doesn't complain so who am I to judge

 

[LCR1]

It sounds like the car you currently own is nearly identical to the one we're currently selling. That 1% you mention is the only reason we're selling it because one of our hobbies is driving all over the country and the 90D is just more suited to that 1% use. If it wasn't for that we'd keep the 2015 70D with about 95k miles because it's a phenomenal car.

If the OP can be honest with themselves about what they truly need for range they can save tens of thousands of dollars most likely. Even for occasional road trips the 70D works just fine.

Yep exactly where I'm at right now with 98K on the clock. I make a lot of trips from Houston to Dallas area and down to the border and each trip takes 2 stops for the 70D for a total of 1:30 in charging since the whole battery/charge gate throttling. If I had a 90D it would still be two stops but 40 minutes of charging so I'm constantly fighting the whole is it worth a $10K battery upgrade to cut charging in half is that 45 minutes to an hour every 2 weeks worth it?

The other problem is when I visit the state parks which we've got 6-10 trips planned this year, some of the Texas parks are at the very edge of range so I'll nearly fill up at the last supercharger and drive at or under the speed limit to get there with enough range to make it back and hope to find a L2 charger on the way that actually works and that's hours of our time. I thought of a way around that is to book air bnb instead of hotel and charge at the house overnight, even L1 over two nights is 80-100 miles and I built a 50 or maybe it was 75ft extension to charge from a dryer outlet and bump it down to 15-20amp which will give us pretty much a full charge. If this doesn't work then again, is it worth it to spend 10K+ on the upgrade or just take the ICE?

It seems the OP is being honest and they can get away with a 70 and especially a 90. I'm willing to take the risk that a 70 or 90 will last 3-5 years and by then 3rd party battery swaps will common place.

 

[LCR1]

Wow - everyone thank you so much for the advice and thoughts (and taking the time to write them down). I really appreciate all of the perspectives. The reason I am leaning "used" is that i get stuck on paying 90k for a new car (mentally), and if I can get that number to a "reasonable" 60k.....

Range is important, but I have to be realistic. My longest roundtrips during a typical year will be 200 miles. 1-3 times per year I will do 250 mile roundtrips, which probably requires charging in used options (probably fine in a new vehicle), but the charging need will be quick. 95% of my use will be 50 miles per day (or less) with a lot of parking at the airport for 4 days.

For my purposes, a 70ish K used P100D with rear facing seats 'feels' like the right trade-off between age/cost and adds in a lot of FUN. It might also have enough range to cover all my uses without charging. I am nervous about "less" warranty/coverage but perhaps that is irrational? I might go even further down in range but hold the '16 vintage...

How do people feel about the "interior" sacrifice of used vs. the new interiors? (note we are a family that is very hard on cars).

With you living in the DC area you have some hard winters but also an abundance of Superchargers to hook up to on trips. With the speeds we drive in Texas a 200 mile rated range will get me 150ish in real life at 75-85mph the range of a 90D rated at 280 would get me 210ish. So for me I didn't have the cash to get a 90D, hell I sacrificed a shitton to get the 70D but it's worked out for 2 years and 55K miles. If you have the money for a 90D I wouldn't hesitate to get one over a 100 or even new.

In my 70D a 200 mile round trip would used 250miles of rated range, the 90D would cover it non stop in good weather, the 70D would take a 15 minute pit stop. A 250 mile trip would take 310 miles of rated range and would need 40-50 minutes of charging. The 90D would be a 20-25 minute stop. Again this is driving 75-85mph in clear weather with temps ranging from 40-100*. snow and sub freezing on road trips is something I can't speak on. I also drive 70 miles round trip for work, parking at the airport uses 3-5 miles a day just sitting for me.

My used interior had minimal wear and tear when I got it at 43K. it was an older Indian couple that owned it before me (Tesla left all their old info and paperwork in the glovebox ) They brought it in for some rattles and what not but nothing serious. I however had some serious issues that have been covered under warranty. Me getting in and out multiple times a day hasn't bothered it, even getting out of the gym all sweaty and the 20min drive home hasn't really hurt my seat and the kids don't do much to destroy it; they're 10,11,12 though so they're old enough to know they'll get their ass beat for doing anything stupid.

Buying used, especially from Tesla, you're not getting any less warranty, in fact it'll be more. Buying new you get the 4yr/50k and you can opt in for an additional 4yr/50k extended protection with a ?$200? deductible per incident. With used from Tesla you're getting the original warranty that someone used to get stuff fixed for free, now you have a car with 20-50K miles that gets an additional 4yr/50k warranty with no deductible. My car was covered till 93K miles and I used it all they up until that thing expired, I had things replaced like window motors and trunk latches that went out in the 80-90K range. Buying new you'd be out of pocket when those random things happen after 50K. Also buying used the cars retain their 8yr unlimited mileage battery and motor warranty. New cars are coming with 8yr/150K I drive 25-30K a year so I'll be getting an extra 50-90,000 miles of battery and motor coverage compared to someone buying new. If you drive less than 19K miles a year it's irrelevant to you, me, I drive 19K miles a year just commuting.

The fun factor only you can answer, I have a slower 5.4s 0-60 car and I've driven the high end ones. The 90d and 100D offer plenty of speed in the 3.8 - 4 second range but the performance cars got old pretty fast, especially when looking at the tire bills some people have to pay and not to mention the wear and tear on the battery and motors. I don't see them lasting near as long as non performance battery and motors, see above battery/motor warranty info. Again, only you and your pocketbook can answer that fun factor