Citations for charging our car at Yellowstone

[Xenoilphobe]

@tes-s The OP is already going to court. Quote "Anyway, 40 minutes later, I got two citations: one for parking illegally and one for misappropriation of funds. The second one requires that I appear in court in Yellowstone in November. (We live in California)

I don't care if his car cost $12, the police can't abusively damage property and just walk away, or restrain you by seizing your property, this officer was way over the line. If he were in danger or endangering someone else OK, I can see the action, but his behavior was driven by some other bias or issue he was dealing with that day. A supervisor needs to check the officer out, my bet is this isn't the first incident with this P.O....

 

[Mrcook4590]

@tes-s The OP is already going to court. Quote "Anyway, 40 minutes later, I got two citations: one for parking illegally and one for misappropriation of funds. The second one requires that I appear in court in Yellowstone in November. (We live in California)

I don't care if his car cost $12, the police can't abusively damage property and just walk away, or restrain your by seizing your property, this officer was way over the line. If he were in danger or endangering someone else OK, I can see the action, but his behavior was driven by some other bias or issue he was dealing with that day. A supervisor needs to check the officer out, my bet is this isn't the first incident with this P.O....

I tend to agree. They need to know that this is a problem, and that this officer damaged the OP's car. It is common knowledge to owners that you cannot take the charger out of the actual Tesla without damage to the car, so it can be deduced that the officer damaged the car with reasonable certainty, I would think. What a jerk! He definitely just should have unplugged it from the outlet and then babysat the X if he was that afraid OP would 'escape justice.' Reminds me a bit of Smokey and the Bandit's Beaufort T. Justice.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Loved that guy!!!

 

[ewoodrick]

I hate to be negative, but that actions that you took definitely said "arrogant, self- absorbed a**hole"

You were in a National Park. It should be really obvious (although so many of the above defined people miss it) that there is a significant conservation program going on and that parking on the grass/dirt is a definite no-no.That's at every national park in the country.
The park has indulged and installed a number of J-1772 connectors around the park. So they are indeed catering to EV drivers.

From their perspective, what if everyone starting parking wherever they want. What if people were to pull a camper up in the parking lot and plug into the same plug and run the air conditioners.

I'm sorry that you get caught up in the pressure to charge, but decimation of America's National Parks isn't the best place to be. I've done a lot of search and recue work in the parks, they don't even allow us many latitudes, even when their are lives at stake.

 

[DarkHelmet]

So you asked if you could charge, someone said yes. Misunderstanding... A cop then damaged your vehicle and stole your charge cable in order to detain you.

Sounds like a slam dunk 4th amendment case at a minimum. I’d have a lawyer run this one up the flag pole and not stop without full restitution and or that cops job... depending on how vindictive you are.

 

[teethdood]

@ewoodrick I understand what you're saying. Most people who visit national parks are very conscious to minimize their impact on the environment. Case in point, op made a point in driving an EV instead of an ICE despite the limited charging options available in Yellowstone. National Parks are notoriously air polluted, and driving an EV made a small difference directly (no carbon and smog) and indirectly (by letting others know EVs can travel to remote places too). The NPs should actively promote EVs as much as possible. Perhaps even making reserved parking spots for EVs in crowded parks such as Yellowstone.

In this specific instance, the op admitted as much that it is his fault for not asking. But it is the NP's fault also for not putting up a sign or locking up said outlet. They can also flip a breaker switch. Simple solution if you don't want people messing with your stuff. I'll tell you what's going on with my property as an example. People are trespassing on my property, sleeping at and trashing the back of my office, sometimes even doing #1 and #2 back there. Cops can't do anything unless I specifically put up no trespassing signs all around my office. If they act like this on private property, then do the same for public property. Put up a sign!

 

[juliusa]

The OP is already going to court.

If it were me, I would try to negotiate a plea on the whole thing where I did not have to go there. The cost and time of going there is more consequential than the fine. Working in the damage to the vehicle assumed to be a result of the police may help in the negotiation.

Fighting the unlimited time and resources of the government is a losing battle, unless you are more concerned with the principle than your time and money.

 

[jeffro01]

My wife and I visited Yellowstone National Park last weekend with our Model X. Neither of us had been there for 35 years and we were eager to see the magnificent sights in the park with a clean vehicle. Since Yellowstone is so big and the charging opportunities are so few I was anxious to plug in wherever I could. While visiting the Old Faithful area I plugged into a 14-50 receptacle near the Post Office. When we returned to our car a park police officer was waiting. He was noticeably upset and said that we were parked illegally (we were since I was off the pavement close to the receptacle) and that it was not a Tesla charging station. Moreover, he said that I was stealing electricity. Anyway, 40 minutes later, I got two citations: one for parking illegally and one for misappropriation of funds. The second one requires that I appear in court in Yellowstone in November. (We live in California). They had me smooth over the tire prints in the dirt so that other people wouldn't get the wrong idea that they could drive off the pavement. Also, he pulled out my charging cable so that he could hold it hostage at the ranger station to ensure that I would not drive away. Since the car was locked this broke the locking tab on the charging port. So beware fellow EV drivers--don't plug in just anywhere at Yellowstone.

If that'd happened to me I'd have totally lost it on that cop for destruction of property... Wow... What a pathetic POS LE...

Jeff

 

[jboy210]

@ewoodrick But it is the NP's fault also for not putting up a sign or locking up said outlet. They can also flip a breaker switch. Simple solution if you don't want people messing with your stuff. I'll tell you what's going on with my property as an example. People are trespassing on my property, sleeping at and trashing the back of my office, sometimes even doing #1 and #2 back there. Cops can't do anything unless I specifically put up no trespassing signs all around my office. If they act like this on private property, then do the same for public property. Put up a sign!

The onus is on the person wanting to use someone's resource to get permission. No different than me going over to my neighbor's house and plugging into the NEMA 14-50 that he uses for his RV without asking.

And we can't expect the park service to put up signs all over National parks. Their goal is to make things blend in, so we can forget about cities and all their unnatural signage and lights, and enjoy the natural state of the park.

 

[teethdood]

@jboy210 There's a huge difference. The neighbor's house is private property where there's an expectation of privacy/no trespassing. Everywhere in the NP is public property where one can go unless specifically prohibited. That's why you gotta have signs. Besides, what about locking the outlet up and/or flipping the breaker to off? You would think if this was a common occurrence that they'd do any one of the three things - sign, lock, or breaker. Sign looks ugly? Fine, what about lock or breaker switch?

 

[rhumbliner]

@dmsail, really sorry to hear about your experience but I can commiserate. We visited YNP this past weekend (10/16/2018) and since I had no cell service I spent a fair amount of time driving around looking for the EV outlets listed on PlugShare. Finally, I asked an attendant at the Old Faithful Inn and he said “you’ll never find it on your own” so he hopped in my car and directed me to the Obsidian EV outlets.

Great guy and a happier ending.

 

[pandam3]

This reminds me of what happened when I went to Monterey car week. We went to a Porsche event at a country club. There was a Tesla HPWC with a sign that says EV only and a spot. Nothing else that says no parking. So I parked there and started charging when the manager of the country club came out 5 minutes later to say it is for members only and I have to park in the spectator area. As I left some handicap people parked next to the spot in a handicap spot and they made them move too.

 

[MarsBar]

@ewoodrick I understand what you're saying. Most people who visit national parks are very conscious to minimize their impact on the environment. Case in point, op made a point in driving an EV instead of an ICE despite the limited charging options available in Yellowstone. National Parks are notoriously air polluted, and driving an EV made a small difference directly (no carbon and smog) and indirectly (by letting others know EVs can travel to remote places too). The NPs should actively promote EVs as much as possible. Perhaps even making reserved parking spots for EVs in crowded parks such as Yellowstone.

In this specific instance, the op admitted as much that it is his fault for not asking. But it is the NP's fault also for not putting up a sign or locking up said outlet. They can also flip a breaker switch. Simple solution if you don't want people messing with your stuff. I'll tell you what's going on with my property as an example. People are trespassing on my property, sleeping at and trashing the back of my office, sometimes even doing #1 and #2 back there. Cops can't do anything unless I specifically put up no trespassing signs all around my office. If they act like this on private property, then do the same for public property. Put up a sign!

On the point above about EV impact on the environment, where does Yellowstone get it's electricity from? Most of Wyoming's comes from coal.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

I hate to be negative, but that actions that you took definitely said "arrogant, self- absorbed a**hole"

You were in a National Park. It should be really obvious (although so many of the above defined people miss it) that there is a significant conservation program going on and that parking on the grass/dirt is a definite no-no.That's at every national park in the country.
The park has indulged and installed a number of J-1772 connectors around the park. So they are indeed catering to EV drivers.

From their perspective, what if everyone starting parking wherever they want. What if people were to pull a camper up in the parking lot and plug into the same plug and run the air conditioners.

I'm sorry that you get caught up in the pressure to charge, but decimation of America's National Parks isn't the best place to be. I've done a lot of search and recue work in the parks, they don't even allow us many latitudes, even when their are lives at stake.

 

[welcomewagon]

Sounds like a reasonable response to me, sure he could have give you a warning, but it's pretty obvious you shouldn't have been parking OR charging there. Own up to your mistake.

 

[jeffro01]

Sounds like a reasonable response to me, sure he could have give you a warning, but it's pretty obvious you shouldn't have been parking OR charging there. Own up to your mistake.

Right... For starters, lets look at what @welcomewagon actually posted...

"Sounds like you got what was coming to you. Pretty obvious you shouldn't be charging there."

It's absolutely not okay in any way, shape, or form, for the cop to damage the persons vehicle. Let me guess, you also think it's totally okay for cops to shoot first and ask questions later?

Jeff

 

[ReddyLeaf]

You could argue that having that plug there is an "attractive nuisance" that would attract someone in your situation.

That you not trying to do anything wrong....but it was right there.

Maybe a small fine. Also might make the park aware that the EV fleet is being underserved and they should be proactive in supplying charging opportunities for those visitors.

Sounds like a pretty easy lawsuit. Why is the plug there?

 

[welcomewagon]

Right... For starters, lets look at what @welcomewagon actually posted...

"Sounds like you got what was coming to you. Pretty obvious you shouldn't be charging there."

It's absolutely not okay in any way, shape, or form, for the cop to damage the persons vehicle. Let me guess, you also think it's totally okay for cops to shoot first and ask questions later?

Jeff

Nice try, but I stand by both statements. Not sure what you’re trying to prove there. Definitely not ok to damage your vehicle, but wouldn’t have happened if he hadn’t done something so obviously wrong.

 

[mknox]

Don't your tax dollars pay for that park? Doesn't it belong to "the people". I would never go there again.

So if I drive a gas car, it's okay to siphon a bit of that taxpayer paid gasoline off from a park vehicle or park storage facility? I don't think so. I think it's been recognized here already, but always ask permission before plugging in.

The onus is on the person wanting to use someone's resource to get permission. No different than me going over to my neighbor's house and plugging into the NEMA 14-50 that he uses for his RV without asking.

Exactly. Years ago, someone was building next to my parent's lake house and instead of running generators or installing a temporary utility service, they ran multiple extension cords over to our place. I rolled up the cords, locked them in my shed and shut the breakers off to the outside outlets. Never heard a peep from them and no one ever asked for the cords back.

Even though it's a public park, you can't just go in and help yourself to whatever you want... whether it be electricity, gasoline or anything else.

 

[rhumbliner]

On the point above about EV impact on the environment, where does Yellowstone get it's electricity from? Most of Wyoming's comes from coal.

Not sure where the park gets its electricity from, but I know just south of the park, here in Jackson, we are able to opt for wind & hydro generated service — Wyoming generates a fair amount from wind. I would argue that even if the electricity comes from coal-fired plants, displacing the pollution to anywhere outside the pristine environment of a national park is worthwhile.

There are a fair number of online discussions concerning the Long Tailpipe Theory here: The long tailpipe - Wikipedia; and elsewhere. I think it’s good to keep in mind that coal-fired plants pollute less than the average ICE per BTU, and if/when a plant converts to a non-polluting source of energy then all of the EV’s connected to that plant no longer exhibit the Long Tailpipe Effect.