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[Claim recanted] Autopilot blamed for accident in Minnesota

Discussion in 'Model S' started by X Fan, Jul 17, 2017.

  1. X Fan

    X Fan Supporting Member

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    • Informative x 1
  2. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    It went it a marsh? I wonder if it was set to submarine mode?
     
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  3. jelloslug

    jelloslug Active Member

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    It sound more like the owner hit the accelerator rather than the brake.
     
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  4. MasterT

    MasterT Member

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    Or, the cruise control might have been previously set to a higher speed and re-engagement caused it to .... speed up to the set speed
     
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  5. JPUConn

    JPUConn Member

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    Much info lacking in the article. I put 500 mostly autopilot miles on a brand new AP2 loaner this weekend and you must be fully aware that it is a driver assist. The fact that the article states the driver engaged prior to entering an intersection sounds suspicious and like an unfortunate accident on the drivers behalf - I am glad there we're no serious injuries.

    Was this the owners personal vehicle with experience using autopilot? Or was this a loaner or possible first time experiencing autopilot?

    AP1 or AP2?
     
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  6. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Active Member

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    Yup, exactly what it sounds like...except that the accelerator was the cruise control resuming as he thought he was engaging AP.
     
  7. MorrisonHiker

    MorrisonHiker S 90D 2017.42

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    There's very limited information in the article but it sounds like driver error to me. It sounds like he engaged AP but didn't confirm the speed. If there was a car in front that turned at the intersection, the car would've quickly resumed the set speed limit.

    Whenever I'm on local roads, I engage TACC by pushing the stalk up or down to set it close to the speed that I'm currently driving. If on highways/interstates, I'll pull it towards me once to set it close to the speed limit that I want it to accelerate to.
     
  8. AudubonB

    AudubonB Mild-mannered Moderator Lord Vetinari*

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  9. SabrToothSqrl

    SabrToothSqrl Active Member

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    Can we dig up news articles from the time the first cars came with 'regular' cruise control? I bet a lot of those crashed. Did anyone blame the car?
     
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  10. rscott0

    rscott0 Member

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    Here is a Google map of the intersection.

    The report says that the driver was approaching the intersection and turned on AP.

    [1] AP isn't designed to handle intersections. This is something I believe nearly all Tesla owners that use AP are very aware of.
    [2] With this intersection, you can "bear left" or "bear right". The car has to pick which way to go, and so it looks like a situation where nobody would typically engage AP (you have to assume a 50-50 chance that the car will get it right).
    [3] This doesn't seem to have anything to do with AP; it's an issue with engaging the cruise control (in other words, there is no way to say "AP should have done X here, not Y").

    That said, I believe Tesla needs to set the car to never increase the speed without the user either [1] stepping on the accelerator, or [2] increasing the cruise speed manually with the stalk. I've had the car accelerate before like that, and it can be scary (and dangerous; if it is scary, that means you were not expecting it).
     
  11. animorph

    animorph Member

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    I agree, the T intersection is not something I'd let AP handle. Much less turn it on just before that. Almost like they wanted to create a test case. I have had AP start when set to a higher speed than I was expecting, but that is easily remedied with the brakes.
     
  12. jelloslug

    jelloslug Active Member

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    That's why I said that I think he hit the accelerator rather than the brakes. There would have been no reason to engage AP or TACC right there, even if he would have done it accidentally, the first reaction would be brakes which obviously did not happen. The only logical thing left is that he approached the intersection, hit the accelerator rather than the brakes, and then pressed it harder thinking that he was still on the brakes.
     
  13. ggr

    ggr Roadster R80 537, SigS P85 29

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    Driver now denies saying it was on autopilot at the time.
     
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  14. rscott0

    rscott0 Member

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    link

    “to the best of my recollection, I had engaged the autopilot system, but then I had disengaged it by stepping on the accelerator. I then remember looking up and seeing the sharp left turn, which I was accelerating into. I believe we started to make the turn, but then felt the car give way and lose its footing.”
     
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  15. MorrisonHiker

    MorrisonHiker S 90D 2017.42

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    Hmm. When I push the accelerator, it doesn't disable autopilot. It just lets me drive faster while it continues to steer. Just last week, I did a test on a local road and found the speed limits were wrong. I was testing autosteer and TACC and it limited me to 40 mph since it thought the speed limit was 35 mph. I was able to accelerate to 45 mph and the car displayed a message but continued to steer the car. It sounds like the driver in the accident doesn't know exactly how autopilot works. It also sounds odd that he is intentionally accelerating while going into a sharp curve and had to look up to see the sharp curve. Shouldn't his eyes have already been on the road?
     
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  16. Barklikeadog

    Barklikeadog Member

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    You reminded me of the guy who accidentally summoned his car which then ran into a truck. Let me know if I have this correct as I was not on this forum when this occurred...

    The summon command needed a negative answer (as in: unless you hit 'no' the car is gonna go)
    So it is feasible someone could accidentally trigger it and get out of the car, walk away, and not know what is going on.
    Tesla said operator error, guy is lying, it didn't happen by accident, (and by the way the car can't see above the bumper, bicycles, pedestrians...)
    Tesla then updates summon so you have to answer 'yes', otherwise the car does nothing.

    i assume the knee-jerk reaction is that there are a lot of idiots in the world blaming their mistakes on a car.

    If nothing was wrong, why was it necessary to 'fix' it?

    I'm not here to attack tesla, this is more about big companies, specially automakers, that constantly claim 'not our fault' even when it is and the consumer gets screwed.
     
  17. Baja30

    Baja30 Member

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    The guy just changed his story, Autopilot was not on at time of accident, but he was accelerating!
     
  18. MasterT

    MasterT Member

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    You should start your own thread
     
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  19. animorph

    animorph Member

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    In my brief experience you can't cancel AP by pressing the accelerator. So the guy is definitely confused. Seems like the AP (or just TACC?) was still on, unexpectedly to him, and as he released the accelerator the car did not slow down as he expected. Which can feel like acceleration after decelerating a little down to the TACC set speed. Caught him by surprise so he didn't brake in time.
     
  20. Silverstreak

    Silverstreak Member

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    Did you see the pic of the road he was using it on? ...good grief
     

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