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Climate Change Civil Disobedience

Discussion in 'Energy, Environment, and Policy' started by nwdiver, Dec 24, 2014.

  1. nwdiver

    nwdiver Active Member

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    #1 nwdiver, Dec 24, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016
    I thought this would make a good companion thread to Climate Change Legal Action.

    As concern over climate change increases we will likely see communities that reach a 'tipping point' where prosecution of people participating in civil disobedience will become difficult or impossible.

    Take for example this case in Maine.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lori-day/lobster-boat-blockade-of-_b_5816810.html?utm_hp_ref=green&ir=Green

    You need a Jury to convict and a Jury can be a fickle creature :rolleyes:



    If it's unethical or immoral then civil disobedience is a civic duty.

    img_5008.jpg

    We're going to see A LOT more of this...
     
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  2. nwdiver

    nwdiver Active Member

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    #2 nwdiver, Jan 11, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016
  3. nwdiver

    nwdiver Active Member

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    Things are heating up in North Dakota... I don't think North Dakota has the resources to cope with a growing protest.



    I know that reducing demand is more important... but at the same time if we're going to make rapid progress at reducing our addiction to fools fuel we need to increase resistance to making more oil available on the market and increase the cost.
     
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  4. RubberToe

    RubberToe Supporting the greater good

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    Thanks for that link diver. I added the Dakota Access Pipeline as a news feed. Will be very interesting to see how this turns out. Lots of lessons learned there ;)

    RT
     
  5. SageBrush

    SageBrush Active Member

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    I find this so sad, that people are going to be hurt if not killed by the denialist hordes.
     
  6. B8BB8B

    B8BB8B Member

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    As much as I am a firm believer in Tesla and finding another way to create energy this sort of stuff just boils my blood.

    This is basically stealing profits from these companies to make there own words be heard. That is basically saying you will shun a business because you do not like it. I don't approve of people eating fast food but you don't see me going to every burger joint and locking the doors shut. And if I did do that I would be charged, rightfully so as these 5 need to be charged back all the money they stole by holding this train up.
     
  7. nwdiver

    nwdiver Active Member

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    I would be tempted to do that... and I would certainly support those that did if other people eating fast food made me obese.... as is the case with climate change.

    This isn't about 'live and let live'... someone else's addiction to fools fuel hurts EVERYONE. That's what makes this addiction so abhorrent. By adding to the CO2 loading of the biosphere fools fuel addicts are forcing dozens of risk factors on everyone. That's wrong by any metric and it needs to stop.
     
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  8. Skotty

    Skotty 2014 Model S P85

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    #8 Skotty, Sep 4, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2016
    While I think such people should probably focus their efforts on pressuring the government instead of interfering directly with companies, if they believe it is their moral duty to intervene, I can empathize.

    This brings up an interesting question. Might it be a conservative values position to interfere directly with the companies instead of trying to involve government? Maybe this direct interference is just a showing of conservative values? From that viewpoint, maybe it is better not to involve uncle Sam. Something to ponder.

    I'd like to add that it is important to recognize who is at risk on such things. Acts that add risk to others is bad. Acts that add risk to self is just choice and freedom. If you eating Big Macs makes you fat but you want to do it anyway, by all means, enjoy your meal. However, if somehow you eating Big Macs could magically make me fat, then there's a problem. You can make the indirect "you are hurting my pocket book" argument about fat people causing insurance rates to rise or something like that; that's getting into grey areas where a solid debate can be had.

    For climate change, the risk is global, and backed by the majority of science. That gives it a pretty solid case for action.
     
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  9. nwdiver

    nwdiver Active Member

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    Historically people have pressured the government BY interfering directly...
     
  10. RubberToe

    RubberToe Supporting the greater good

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    And those pesky Founding Father's should have been rounded up for their radical ways too! :)

    RT
     
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  11. B8BB8B

    B8BB8B Member

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    With this being said though... is it America / Canada that is hurting the global front of this or is it the lesser countries with less safety / environmental policies that hurt. You have to look at all angles. How much Co2 does this side of the world produce and how much vegetation do we have to eat that up vs how much the other side of the world has...etc.
     
  12. nwdiver

    nwdiver Active Member

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    You're conflating two separate issues. CO2 with local environmental impact.

    Massive infrastructure projects like DAPL and Keystone create a form of economic inertia driving further consumption of fools fuel. We need to start applying the brakes... not mashing the accelerator.
     
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  13. nwdiver

    nwdiver Active Member

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    Hmmm... well... the judge and jury appeared to disagree with you...

    “Frankly, the court is convinced that the defendants are far from the problem and are part of the solution to the problem of climate change,” he said. “They are tireless advocates that we need in this society to prevent the kind of catastrophic effects that we see coming, and our politicians are ineffectually addressing.”

    It's called the 'necessity defense'. Essentially if the consequences of non action are greater than the crime then there is no crime. It's kinda like self-defense. It's abundantly clear that the consequences of climate change are FAR FAR greater than holding up a train... or a pipeline.

    If it's unethical or immoral then civil disobedience is a civic duty.
     
  14. nwdiver

    nwdiver Active Member

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  15. flashflood

    flashflood Member

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    You have an absolute moral right to petition your government. You do not have a right to interfere with the lives of law-abiding fellow citizens. Or are you totally OK with pro-life people physically blocking access to abortion clinics?
     
  16. S'toon

    S'toon Knows where his towel is

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  17. Off Shore

    Off Shore Member

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    Remarkably few details in the news about why they issued a warrant rather than just arresting her. Ratings gold for Democracy Now in any case ;-)
     
  18. nwdiver

    nwdiver Active Member

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    Bit of a difference... DAPL represents a clear and present danger to MY well-being. Yeah... I'm selfish like that... Stopping DAPL is more an act of self-defense. Pro-Life groups are trying to control what other people do. Here's away to think of it... what DAPL is doing would be like if Pro-Choice groups were FORCING people to have abortions. Make sense now?

    Show support to those that are holding the line;

    Morton County DA
    Allen M. Koppy
    (701) 667-3350

    Be polite.

    They issued the warrant based on video evidence (Her reporting from the scene). She was already back in NY.
     
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  19. nwdiver

    nwdiver Active Member

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