Climate Change Denial

[AMPd]

When people's living standards improve they choose to have fewer children. This is the "population collapse" that Elon is so mistakenly worried about. Fewer people living better lives is a good thing and should be the goal not feared.

Interesting. I’m one of those people, we have 2 kids and that’s all we’ll ever have simply because I can provide a better life for the 2 of them.
But I never looked at it as a benefit to the environment, rather a benefit to our financial health

 

[DrGriz]

Interesting. I’m one of those people, we have 2 kids and that’s all we’ll ever have simply because I can provide a better life for the 2 of them.
But I never looked at it as a benefit to the environment, rather a benefit to our financial health

Definitely contributes positively to the health of the environment, but your and my (1 child limit intentionally for both financial and environmental concerns) contributions will be massively steamrolled by what's going on with the rest of the world.

 

[nwdiver]

Sure... cities are the problem

 

[ElectricIAC]

Sure... cities are the problem

View attachment 856514

One required a QR code for service, one didn’t.

 

[AMPd]

Definitely contributes positively to the health of the environment, but your and my (1 child limit intentionally for both financial and environmental concerns) contributions will be massively steamrolled by what's going on with the rest of the world.

I have no doubt, my contribution is insignificant in the grand scheme. Not that I’m doing it for environmental reasons anyway.

 

[AMPd]

Sure... cities are the problem

View attachment 856514

Les Deux Magots?

We’ve gone too far

 

[nwdiver]

my contribution is insignificant in the grand scheme.

 

[JRP3]

Interesting. I’m one of those people, we have 2 kids and that’s all we’ll ever have simply because I can provide a better life for the 2 of them.
But I never looked at it as a benefit to the environment, rather a benefit to our financial health.

There are a number of influences that cause people to have fewer children when living standards improve, I imagine environmental impacts are the least of them. I suspect one difference is that in first world countries having children costs more per child and many people reach the same conclusion you did. In essence it's a microcosm of what I advocate, fewer people living better lives.

 

[JRP3]

Sure... cities are the problem

Right, should I start posting pics of city traffic jams and empty country roads as a counter? In truth the problem is Starbucks. Anyone can easily make coffee at home for much less cost and much faster than going to a store, either on foot or driving.

 

[nwdiver]

Right, should I start posting pics of city traffic jams and empty country roads as a counter? In truth the problem is Starbucks. Anyone can easily make coffee at home for much less cost and much faster than going to a store, either on foot or driving.

As you say. Fewer people. If we're to have more people they need to be mostly in cities. That's the choice. Fewer people or more cities.

People are people. Sometimes they just want to buy a cup of coffee. If they live in a city they can walk... not in a city they drive. Which is better? Ideally most people should never need to own a car. That's only possible in a city.

 

[ohmman]

Anyone can easily make coffee at home for much less cost and much faster than going to a store, either on foot or driving.

Or not drink it.

I roast my own beans and make my own espresso at home, then compost the grounds in my own pile. While it may be less bad for the planet compared to the listed alternatives, drinking something extracted from a seed grown in a far away land is probably still pretty terrible environmentally. Delicious? Yes. But not environmentally pure.

 

[JRP3]

Ideally most people should never need to own a car. That's only possible in a city.

Don't tell the Amish.

 

[nwdiver]

Don't tell the Amish.

Going back to horse buggies is even less sustainable than EVs. Lots of things work fine when your population is less than 100M. As you say... fewer people. Or more cities.

 

[JRP3]

The impact of a long lasting efficient EV with fully recycleable materials will be quite minimal. Though I'm not a fan of the specific design something on the scale of the Aptera is quite sustainable.

 

[nwdiver]

The impact of a long lasting efficient EV with fully recycleable materials will be quite minimal.

Sure.... but it's never going to be close to a pair of shoes or a bicycle...

I love my Tesla but I'm not going to pretend it's not insane that I need to own a 2 ton machine to go get 20lbs of groceries. If you have 10M people isn't it better to have them living in an area of ~400sq miles so ~everything is walkable instead of 5,000sq miles? I agree if you have fewer people none of this is really relevant since the impact is reduced.... doesn't matter what the raindrops do if there isn't enough of them to cause a flood.

 

[AMPd]

Sure.... but it's never going to be close to a pair of shoes or a bicycle...

I love my Tesla but I'm not going to pretend it's not insane that I need to own a 2 ton machine to go get 20lbs of groceries. If you have 10M people isn't it better to have them living in an area of ~400sq miles so ~everything is walkable instead of 5,000sq miles? I agree if you have fewer people none of this is really relevant since the impact is reduced.... doesn't matter what the raindrops do if there isn't enough of them to cause a flood.

Why do you own a Tesla if you live in a city? Just walk to a grocery store.

 

[nwdiver]

Why do you own a Tesla if you live in a city? Just walk to a grocery store.

The town where I live is very small. Everything else is >30 miles away. This was the closest place to live to where I worked. If not for the proximity to where I worked I would have picked a larger city. I would love to live in place where I can ride a bike to everything and ditch owning a car.

 

[AMPd]

The town where I live is very small. Everything else is >30 miles away. This was the closest place to live to where I worked. If not for the proximity to where I worked I would have picked a larger city. I would love to live in place where I can ride a bike to everything and ditch owning a car.

Many people have quit their jobs and moved to the big city, if you’re so passionate about the idea of packing more people into larger cities, why haven’t you done it?

 

[nwdiver]

Many people have quit their jobs and moved to the big city, if you’re so passionate about the idea of packing more people into larger cities, why haven’t you done it?

.... 'passionate' about what? I'm simply pointing out that cities are part of the solution not the problem. What do we gain environmentally by reducing population density and taking up more land?

And I'm helping people in rural areas get clean energy. Kinda hard to do that living in a city But that is my retirement plan once ~everyone here either has solar or moves into the city.

 

[AMPd]

.... 'passionate' about what? I'm simply pointing out that cities are part of the solution not the problem. What do we gain environmentally by reducing population density and taking up more land?

And I'm helping people in rural areas get clean energy. Kinda hard to do that living in a city But that is my retirement plan once ~everyone here either has solar or moves into the city.

I’m not arguing the benefits or drawbacks, I was just curious why you don’t live what you preach.