Climate Change / Global Warming Discussion

[ggies07]

 

[ggies07]

I really like his take on how we should look at climate change. I've always thought about these things, but never put such concrete terms and meanings on them.

Climate Change And The Astrobiology Of The Anthropocene

 

[beeeerock]

I really like his take on how we should look at climate change. I've always thought about these things, but never put such concrete terms and meanings on them.

Climate Change And The Astrobiology Of The Anthropocene

Very interesting. And seems to dovetail nicely with this: The Fermi Paradox - Wait But Why

 

[ggies07]

Very interesting. And seems to dovetail nicely with this: The Fermi Paradox - Wait But Why

I thought about that as well. He was able to touch on it without getting to trippy and scare other readers.

 

[ggies07]

This happened on Monday and I highly recommend you watch this. Leo is serious about this issue and asks meaningful questions that spur great discussion with Obama and climate scientist Katharine Hayhoe.

 

[ohmman]

The Southwest Will Probably Suffer a Crippling Megadrought This Century

 

[Ulmo]

Could this be good news? This tropical hot air in Aptos has a lovely humidity to it. (I love humid warm air. I think I'm in a minority.) But, what I want to know: if climate changes to Aptos being what used to be called a "tropical region" and the air is always warm and moist, will our redwood forests be able to drink that water? The climate for the redwoods is not tropical; what would be against them continuing to live? I'll ask uncle google ...

He says no:

http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/1870864/coast-redwood-as-tropical-trees

"One thing that trips up attempts to grown CA natives in other climates is that when it is moist here it is cool. The warm moist environment is hospitable to various pathogens. This is one reason that many CA natives flourish in England, where goodness knows it is not hot in summer the way it is in CA and overcast much of the time so it seems odd to see things like Ceanothus thriving there, but it is the absence of warm moist environment that allows them to do so. So the humid heat of the East might well be a 'degree of difficulty' for the Sequoia. When the fog rolls in here in summer it is generally in the high 50's. I know, doesn't sound like summer!"

"The short answer is that coast redwoods are NOT tropical trees and will not benefit from being treated like one.

There is a pretty hard and fast horticultural rule of thumb - if a plant grows and thrives outdoors in the temperate areas of the northern hemisphere, it will NOT do well indoors. Too dry, too warm, not enough light, among other factors. Merely overwintering one may be somewhat easier but you need to follow the same considerations given to living Christmas trees - keep at the lowest possible indoor temperature and for the least possible amount of time. And do not allow to dry out.

These plants need a chill period during dormancy in order to regenerate their reserves and vernalize properly to maintain their life cycle. Depriving them of this alters their growth and gradually weakens them, usually resulting in death. This subject has been discussed at length on the Maples forum regarding bonsai'd maples living indoors."

Apparently, England was and is a place coastal redwoods flourish. We need to help our species of plants and animals find new habitats if we're changing the old ones.

Ugh. No free lunch.

Further reading:

http://www.monumentaltrees.com/en/trees/giantsequoia/elsewhere/

A NO to my question of redwoods doing ok in tropics, and a YES to they do well in other global climates, so we should be planting more redwoods all over the planet where they can survive.

But: if we could put a heat pump in a dome in the tropics and some foggers, we could heat up some sort of industrial process (even energy reclamation from the heat), keeping the redwoods in a cool moist dome with the proper weather, in the tropics, or even in their native habitat that has been tropicalized. These forests and trees are big, so that dome would essentially be a huge roof with a complete wall at the sides. Louvers would be necessary to handle wind and extreme wind (hurricanes). Aerodynamic bypasses could be built to have hurricane winds flow over the forests so that some trees may be saved through the events, and the louvers not all the way open. If the louvers were on spinners, they could cup the wind and become impromptu windmills, superconductors bringing the energy to far away lands to top up all their batteries. (Hey, we humans need work to do during the new time of robots taking our jobs. This would be a fun project.)

 

[Cloxxki]

A megadrought with full overcast from pretty white lines in the sky dispersing. Great for global warming. We all know that a clear sky brings a cooler night.

 

[ggies07]

Well this is not good.......

The North Pole is an insane 36 degrees warmer than normal as winter descends

What’s happening, he explains, is sort of a “double whammy.” On the one hand, there is a “very warm underlying ocean” due to the lack of sea ice forming above it. But, at the same time, kinks in the jet stream have allowed warm air to flow northward and frigid Arctic air to descend over Siberia.

 

[RichardC]

This past week, on the heels of the entry into force of the Paris Climate Change Agreement on 4 November 2016, the United States, Mexico, Germany and Canada have submitted their strategies for long term GHG emission reductions.

The United States has presented a pathway for emissions reductions of 80 percent or more below 2005 levels by 2050. Mexico's pathway is a 50% reduction of greenhouse gases by 2050 compared to the year 2000. Germany has the goal of "extensive greenhouse gas neutrality" by 2050. Canada's emissions reduction goal is for net emissions to fall by 80% by 2050 compared to 2005 levels.

These submissions can be found at the following links:

Germany 14/11/2016 Climate Action Plan 2050 (95 kB)
United States 16/11/2016 Mid-Century Strategy for Deep Decarbonization (4713 kB) Documentation and Output (748 kB)
Mexico 16/11/2016 Mexico's Climate Change Mid-Term Strategy (3292 kB)
Canada 17/11/2016 Canada's Mid-Century Long-Term Strategy (2496 kB)

 

[S'toon]

This past week, on the heels of the entry into force of the Paris Climate Change Agreement on 4 November 2016, the United States, Mexico, Germany and Canada have submitted their strategies for long term GHG emission reductions.

The United States has presented a pathway for emissions reductions of 80 percent or more below 2005 levels by 2050. Mexico's pathway is a 50% reduction of greenhouse gases by 2050 compared to the year 2000. Germany has the goal of "extensive greenhouse gas neutrality" by 2050. Canada's emissions reduction goal is for net emissions to fall by 80% by 2050 compared to 2005 levels.

These submissions can be found at the following links:

Germany 14/11/2016 Climate Action Plan 2050 (95 kB)
United States 16/11/2016 Mid-Century Strategy for Deep Decarbonization (4713 kB) Documentation and Output (748 kB)
Mexico 16/11/2016 Mexico's Climate Change Mid-Term Strategy (3292 kB)
Canada 17/11/2016 Canada's Mid-Century Long-Term Strategy (2496 kB)

Point of order. Canada doesn't really have anything that could be called a strategy in reducing GHG. If they did, they wouldn't have approved a Liquid Natural Gas plant that would be the equivalent of putting 1 million cars on the road, and preparing to approve the Kinder Morgan and Keystone XL pipelines, therefore expanding the tar sands pollution. What the Trudeau government has done is just copied the Harper administration's policy. Put out a weak standard, then fail to meet it.

 

[RichardC]

Point of order. Canada doesn't really have anything that could be called a strategy in reducing GHG. If they did, they wouldn't have approved a Liquid Natural Gas plant that would be the equivalent of putting 1 million cars on the road, and preparing to approve the Kinder Morgan and Keystone XL pipelines, therefore expanding the tar sands pollution. What the Trudeau government has done is just copied the Harper administration's policy. Put out a weak standard, then fail to meet it.

S'toon, I have to acknowledge that there is some validity to your points, but would point out massive improvements in terms of international support (rather than interference) for action on climate change, the price on carbon, the unmuzzling of scientists, and the convening of federal and provincial climate change working groups (none of which would have occurred under Harper). As to the gas plant, some of the more cynical among us have suggested that the mere approval of the gas plant seems unlikely to result in the threatened emissions due to the costs associated with the project and compliance with the conditions of approval. As to the pipelines, they would still seem to be a long way from approval, construction and operation (many chapters yet to be written).

All of us that care about these issues need to get more actively involved and to advocate on behalf of the climate and future generations.

With respect to the latter point, it would be great if you could speak to the "Brads" (Wall and Trost) and get them to pivot in direction of climate reality. (Your fair province currently shares the unfortunate distinctions of having: (1) the highest per capita GHG emissions; (2) the only climate denier provincial leader (Wall); and (3) the only climate denier federal leadership candidate (Trost).)
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=...E6KM10F2MzHWptS-TUQxAA&bvm=bv.139250283,d.amc

 

[S'toon]

S'toon, I have to acknowledge that there is some validity to your points, but would point out massive improvements in terms of international support (rather than interference) for action on climate change, the price on carbon, the unmuzzling of scientists, and the convening of federal and provincial climate change working groups (none of which would have occurred under Harper). As to the gas plant, some of the more cynical among us have suggested that the mere approval of the gas plant seems unlikely to result in the threatened emissions due to the costs associated with the project and compliance with the conditions of approval. As to the pipelines, they would still seem to be a long way from approval, construction and operation (many chapters yet to be written).

All of us that care about these issues need to get more actively involved and to advocate on behalf of the climate and future generations.

With respect to the latter point, it would be great if you could speak to the "Brads" (Wall and Trost) and get them to pivot in direction of climate reality. (Your fair province currently shares the unfortunate distinctions of having: (1) the highest per capita GHG emissions; (2) the only climate denier provincial leader (Wall); and (3) the only climate denier federal leadership candidate (Trost).)
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjTiumz8LXQAhWHzIMKHRA3DMgQFggxMAQ&url=http://smartershift.com/energymix/2016/11/13/cpc-leadership-candidate-goes-full-denier/&usg=AFQjCNHD86RbE6KM10F2MzHWptS-TUQxAA&bvm=bv.139250283,d.amc

Sigh. If I win a lottery I'm out of here. It's so embarrassing living here.

Actually, all signs point to the Kinder Morgan being approved.
Trudeau's $1.5 billion national coastal strategy paves way for Kinder Morgan

 

[SwTslaGrl]

This is an article posted locally this week (translated)

-----------------------------------------------------------
Resistant bacteria can spread through the air

Polluted city air now singled out as a possible source of spread of resistant bacteria. Gothenburg researchers have demonstrated a risk not previously anticipated.

- This may be an important pathway than previously thought, says Joakim Larsson, who is a professor at the Sahlgrenska Academy.

Researchers in Gothenburg have shown that air samples from the Beijing contains DNA from genes that make bacteria resistant to the most powerful antibiotics we have. The samples are only carried out in China is a limitation of the study, but Joakim Larsson, who is also director of the Center for Antibiotic Resistance Research at Gothenburg University believes that now more research is needed in other places in the world.

- We have just received funding to look at how it looks with resistant bacteria on municipal wastewater treatment plants. We will among others allow the sewage plant employees carry air samplers and study their own bacterial flora and flora of people who live very close and farther away, and see if there seems to be a connection to wastewater treatment plants, says Larsson.

864 samples with DNA

In the new study, the researchers looked for genes that make bacteria resistant to antibiotics in a total of 864 samples of DNA collected from humans, animals and different environments worldwide. The results do not provide answers to the bacteria whose DNA has been analyzed, were actually alive in the air, and thus constituted a real danger.

- It is reasonable to believe that it is a mixture of live and dead bacteria, based on experience from other studies of bacteria in the air, says Larsson.

Is there reason to be worried about the new findings?

- We should be very concerned about antibiotic resistance. How did they get up in the air? Our research contributes to the understanding of the spread, but the basic problem of the increasing resistance in society's previously known. One should of course not be worried about breathing the air, but antibiotic resistance is a major problem for all of us.

Resistenta bakterier kan spridas via luften

 

[ZsoZso]

As it stands right now, the leading candidate for EPA chief is Kathleen Hartnett White:
Former Texas Regulator White Said To Be Considered For EPA Chief | InsideEPA.com
Kathleen Hartnett-White

That's not good for the U.S. or the planet.

Here's an article she wrote on CO2 and climate change:
Kathleen Hartnett White - Clearing the Air on Climate Change

The above quote I am responding to was posted on the short term TSLA price thread, but my response is far off-topic for that thread, so I put it here.

In the above linked CO2 article Kathleen White wrote:
"No matter how many times, the President, EPA and the media rant about “dirty carbon pollution,” there is no pollution about carbon itself! As a dictionary will tell you, carbon is the chemical basis of all life. Our flesh, blood and bones are built of carbon. Carbon dioxide (CO2) is the gas of life on this planet, an essential nutrient for plant growth on which human life depends.
...
CO2 is an odorless, invisible, beneficial, and natural gas lacking any characteristics of a pollutant. CO2 in no way contaminates or defiles the air as genuine pollutants can. "

I would suggest a simple experiment to test her theory about this beneficial, harmless gas of life: lock her into an air-tight chamber filled with CO2 for a few hours. After that she can form her own opinion and I will believe and accept anything she has to say (but only what she says after the experiment!)...

 

[mblakele]

More bad news from the arctic: ZLabe@twitter (via weatherwest)

...another drop in #seaice extent from the last 24-hours (3rd day in a row, JAXA)​

 

[SageBrush]

CO2 is an odorless, invisible, beneficial, and natural gas lacking any characteristics of a pollutant

I can think of more than a few isotope gases Kathy would like mixed into her CO2.

What is the chance of Kathy and the kangaroo congress/executive trying to roll back California's exemption from EPA guidelines ?

 

[SageBrush]

This is a fascinating view-point

Trump carbon and the Paris agreement

It says that a trump reversal on climate change will cost the US some $ 8 trillion additional to clean up, but in the larger scheme of things the world has been in trouble anyway due to the sloooow carbon reduction path we have been following.

 

[Lon12]

Always amazes me how bright the Bakken flares are when I fly over them. Took this picture last night:

 

[Dave EV]

Eeeew, look at all that energy going to waste. Inefficient and poorly directed lights on at night make me feel the same way. I wish that more people were cognisant of keeping the sky dark so we can enjoy the stars.