nwdiver
Well-Known Member
We need an angry button...
-
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Climate Change / Global Warming Discussion
- Thread starter Raffy.Roma
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- Energy Environment Policy
We need an angry button...
Mine is on my desk. Well, not really on my desk. It kind of is my desk. To hit the button, you make a fist and slam it down anywhere on the desk.
DragonWatch
Small FootPrint
I was a party crasher about 10 or 12 years ago at a scientific conference in Canada. My wife was there at the conference as an attendee, I was there to be with her. A good opportunity for us to finally be alone together out in the world. I found a topic or two that were of interest and sat in just to see what was being said and discussed. Bottom Line ~ there were no scientists disagreeing with the findings, they were struggling with how to get the word out to the general public. Before the end of the meeting I spoke up and basically said that they, the scientists had to grow a pair and tackle it head on, oh and that they needed money.
My comment here is that again, those that agree that there is man made climate change occurring, then you will have to grow a pair and continue the struggle. From my perspective, as I have stated before, the headwinds include population growth, and very obvious things like clearcuts, the ocean waterfill (dumping ground for garbage), concrete jungles and the list continues forever. Burning wood in fireplaces or open firepits is harmful to our atmosphere, yet the price for a cord of wood increases. I am guilty here of continuing to burn wood one in awhile in our firepit. Collecting free wood is not an option much anymore. As we expand into the open frontier we gut the homes of critters without a thought of the livelihood of those critters because god said we could ~ kinda like Manifest Destiny of the critter world.
About four years after the conference mentioned above my wife and I went back up to Canada for a week in Whistler with her parents. If you are wearing your dark glasses maybe you will not notice, or if not already cut down, a perfectly dead forest. Bark beetles, but gained a foothold due to the warming in the area.
Deniers may enjoy their game, but I spent a month at fort sill in 114 degree temperatures in 1978. If I am off a year who gives a damn, it was extremely hot for this displaced Californian. Fossil Fuel king's science knew then they were causing climate change.
Humm, the trash collection in the ocean was known when I was a young teenager, in more recent time someone figured out it went deeper than expected. Maybe it will become a new continent
or maybe the home of deniers.
When I was growing up there wasn't a homeless population. I was shocked when I spent four years in the late '80s and early '90s at CSULB as a guest professor (military science) ~ oh damn there is that science word again. While there is a problem where I live, I was amazed at the tent cities as I drove around looking for a place to park at the Seattle Tesla shop. Those tent cities are man made, the trash they disperse is man made, the green that turns to brown there is man made. My point here is that the media has done nothing to truly tackle the truth before them. And, not one ~ I say again, NOT ONE ~ religion has stepped in to remedy the problem.
The topic here is Global Warming/Climate Change. I say it is "the new death fronteer." Again the population is out of control and the deniers are using the shield of confusion, created by them, to shield the deliberate death sentence being inflicted on the poor, and critters of the earth. So, until you stop calling an apple an orange, or an orange an apple, and tackle the hard cold facts of the problem no progression to remedy the situation will occur. We have not had a major war since WWII, so how better to control the population that kill off those that have little to nothing. Seventeen million lost their lives in WWI as an example. Through Ethnic Cleansing we cut the Native Americans down to almost nothing. Those that honestly believe they are playing on an even playing field, need to grow a pair, smell the only rose left, and put a truthful solution out there and soon.
You are right about climate change ~ now tackle it head on. I am doing everything I can from my cave, solar panels, planting trees, buying electric tools, and soon to be MX. I tried for years to raise California Quail, but they are to fragile a bird:-(
Seek the truth; breath light into your soul.
My comment here is that again, those that agree that there is man made climate change occurring, then you will have to grow a pair and continue the struggle. From my perspective, as I have stated before, the headwinds include population growth, and very obvious things like clearcuts, the ocean waterfill (dumping ground for garbage), concrete jungles and the list continues forever. Burning wood in fireplaces or open firepits is harmful to our atmosphere, yet the price for a cord of wood increases. I am guilty here of continuing to burn wood one in awhile in our firepit. Collecting free wood is not an option much anymore. As we expand into the open frontier we gut the homes of critters without a thought of the livelihood of those critters because god said we could ~ kinda like Manifest Destiny of the critter world.
About four years after the conference mentioned above my wife and I went back up to Canada for a week in Whistler with her parents. If you are wearing your dark glasses maybe you will not notice, or if not already cut down, a perfectly dead forest. Bark beetles, but gained a foothold due to the warming in the area.
Deniers may enjoy their game, but I spent a month at fort sill in 114 degree temperatures in 1978. If I am off a year who gives a damn, it was extremely hot for this displaced Californian. Fossil Fuel king's science knew then they were causing climate change.
Humm, the trash collection in the ocean was known when I was a young teenager, in more recent time someone figured out it went deeper than expected. Maybe it will become a new continent
or maybe the home of deniers.When I was growing up there wasn't a homeless population. I was shocked when I spent four years in the late '80s and early '90s at CSULB as a guest professor (military science) ~ oh damn there is that science word again. While there is a problem where I live, I was amazed at the tent cities as I drove around looking for a place to park at the Seattle Tesla shop. Those tent cities are man made, the trash they disperse is man made, the green that turns to brown there is man made. My point here is that the media has done nothing to truly tackle the truth before them. And, not one ~ I say again, NOT ONE ~ religion has stepped in to remedy the problem.
The topic here is Global Warming/Climate Change. I say it is "the new death fronteer." Again the population is out of control and the deniers are using the shield of confusion, created by them, to shield the deliberate death sentence being inflicted on the poor, and critters of the earth. So, until you stop calling an apple an orange, or an orange an apple, and tackle the hard cold facts of the problem no progression to remedy the situation will occur. We have not had a major war since WWII, so how better to control the population that kill off those that have little to nothing. Seventeen million lost their lives in WWI as an example. Through Ethnic Cleansing we cut the Native Americans down to almost nothing. Those that honestly believe they are playing on an even playing field, need to grow a pair, smell the only rose left, and put a truthful solution out there and soon.
You are right about climate change ~ now tackle it head on. I am doing everything I can from my cave, solar panels, planting trees, buying electric tools, and soon to be MX. I tried for years to raise California Quail, but they are to fragile a bird:-(
Seek the truth; breath light into your soul.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
Not according to science...
We will have to make adjustments... no more fools fuel and no more red meat. The earth can likely support ~10x as many people as it currently does.
The main issue is how wisely we use energy.
Also, the population growth rate peaked in the early 1970s. We have to deal with a long human lifecycle but projections are for population peak prior to 2100. No insane solutions needed, just education, better healthcare, and quality of life improvements.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Simple math tells me anytime I'm stuck in traffic or in a long line that doubling human population is not a good idea, let alone increasing it 10 times. Nothing says we need to maximize the number of human bodies on the planet. In fact fewer people would be better for many reasons.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
I'm not advocating for more people. AND as I mentioned we can't continue business as usually even with the population we currently have. My point is that our emphasis needs to be on improving how we sustain ourselves. Population concerns are at best severely overblown and are largely resolving themselves with better education.
The solution to traffic is mass transit and smarter urban planning. Not fewer people.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Well fewer people is also a solution. My solution is to stay out of cities, i.e. fewer people
DragonWatch
Small FootPrint
If science is correct, that does not give us license to fill the void in potential population growth. The same is true that if science says we are causing global warming/climate change that does not give us the license to denie it.
Does science of population take into account the mass migrations we are beginning to see as people move from uninhabitable locations to your location? Leaving behind a place that exceeds the heat wave comfort level and barren lands? People will move as climates (weather) change severely, and oceans rise or smog is left unchecked. And you will not be happy that they came to your homeland/doorstep.
Education has been on a major decline since the '80s. There is a concerted erosion from public education toward private and voucher systems that have less standards than publicly funded systems. Recently it came to light that scientists at a major privately funded university lied about sugars affect on the human body. People getting less and less of a quality education means they will not have the knowledge to understand global warming/climate change, let alone debate it with the hope of learning something and changing their mind.
As man/woman expands their footprint ~ what gives? At what point do we just put people in front of a TV screen and ask them to identify a bird, an animal or a fish because their aren't any left on earth?
At what point do we say enough science is enough and denial is enough and take the necessary action to correct the problem. Or, as herd animals, we just run off the cliff?
Does science of population take into account the mass migrations we are beginning to see as people move from uninhabitable locations to your location? Leaving behind a place that exceeds the heat wave comfort level and barren lands? People will move as climates (weather) change severely, and oceans rise or smog is left unchecked. And you will not be happy that they came to your homeland/doorstep.
Education has been on a major decline since the '80s. There is a concerted erosion from public education toward private and voucher systems that have less standards than publicly funded systems. Recently it came to light that scientists at a major privately funded university lied about sugars affect on the human body. People getting less and less of a quality education means they will not have the knowledge to understand global warming/climate change, let alone debate it with the hope of learning something and changing their mind.
As man/woman expands their footprint ~ what gives? At what point do we just put people in front of a TV screen and ask them to identify a bird, an animal or a fish because their aren't any left on earth?
At what point do we say enough science is enough and denial is enough and take the necessary action to correct the problem. Or, as herd animals, we just run off the cliff?
Ulmo
Active Member
Are you sure it all condenses and doesn't add heat? Wouldn't the condensed water also transmit its heat? Down to the surface, which would further allow more evaporation, and cycle.
I used to see stacks of water vapor coming from power generating facilities. I still do in places like San Jose peaker plants and other industrial sources. Cooling systems for other power generation would also similarly heat up the water discharged (be it in oceans, streams or up). I can't help but wonder if some of it heats the atmosphere in a loop of its own without CO2.
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nwdiver
Well-Known Member
It does but it's a rounding error compared to the forcing effect of CO2.
The forcing effect of CO2 is;
~1.5w/sq m = 1MW/sq km
Earth is ~500M sq km so that's 500TW of Energy 24/7....
That's ~4400M TWh/yr. Global energy consumption is ~100k TWh/yr. So the heat emitted by our society is ~3% of the forcing effect of CO2. Add in feedbacks like water vapor and the total forcing could be 3w/sq m or higher.
DragonWatch
Small FootPrint
Well ohmman, it is increasingly up to us to carry the ball. Those that care are average citizens, those that don't care are conservative. Money only cares about money.
Setting the standard, one electrical device, tool and car at a time
Setting the standard, one electrical device, tool and car at a time
Merrill
Merrill
beeeerock
Active Member
Auuuggghhh!!! The stupid!!! It burns!!!!
When I was a teenager and even a young adult, I'd see politicians on the evening news, dressed in their suits, giving sound bites to important issues. At the time, I thought they must represent an intelligent segment of the population. They looked sharp, they had answers and they were apparently in control.
Now that I'm older, I realize I'm smarter and more ethical than the vast majority of those cornholes. And that isn't a boast about my abilities, believe me! They know how to talk the talk, but their unlimited greed seems to cripple their ability to walk the walk. It's unfortunate that the politician job description seems to attract narcissists looking for money and power... with little interest in actually doing the right thing for their constituents and the world in general. The problem today isn't so much about right and left as it is about honesty and integrity... there is little of either to be found.
When I was a teenager and even a young adult, I'd see politicians on the evening news, dressed in their suits, giving sound bites to important issues. At the time, I thought they must represent an intelligent segment of the population. They looked sharp, they had answers and they were apparently in control.
Now that I'm older, I realize I'm smarter and more ethical than the vast majority of those cornholes. And that isn't a boast about my abilities, believe me! They know how to talk the talk, but their unlimited greed seems to cripple their ability to walk the walk. It's unfortunate that the politician job description seems to attract narcissists looking for money and power... with little interest in actually doing the right thing for their constituents and the world in general. The problem today isn't so much about right and left as it is about honesty and integrity... there is little of either to be found.
I feel that national level politicians often find themselves between a rock and a hard place, so to speak. That is, they find that they have to choose between compromising some of their closely held ideals to get something done, thereby angering constituents, or they butt their heads against the opposition repeatedly. I can see where that might eventually wear even the most motivated people out.
My House representative (Mike Thompson) is a man of integrity and honesty, as best I can tell. I've found him to be a good listener to the district and someone who works very hard to represent us. Having recently read about the headwinds/tailwinds asymmetry, I'd like to take the opportunity to note that there are many people in government who are there because they honestly want to do good for the people.
It's frustrating for me that a couple of months ago my brother told me there's not proof that Trump would be bad for the environment. Don't know what happened. He was supposed to the be the smart one in the family. He's the one with the PhD.
Agree 100%. If you come to Italy you will see that the situation is even worse. In particular corruption is wide spread in Italy.
Think that we have a mission. To clean the world from corruption and to clean the atmosphere from CO2. Then we will have a better world and things will get much better for everybody.
RichardC
Cdn Sig & Solar Supporter
I agree. I believe that many decent individuals are interested in governing in the public interest but are corrupted by the system, and in particular the need to raise lots of money (and fundamentally compromise one's principles) in order to stand a chance of electoral success.
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