Climate Change / Global Warming Discussion

[ggies07]

I think sometimes scientists lead with the science, when they should just lead with the common sense first.

Right. Common sense is that we live in a trapped bubble floating in outerspace.....maybe it's because out life spans are so short and if we lived longer to see more changes, people would get a better grasp for it....maybe that's our human tragedy.....

 

[RichardC]

From my perspective, the real tragedy relates to the fact that all of this harm is completely and utterly unnecessary.

It is a product of our failed political and policy systems, under which a relatively small number of fossil fuel plutocrats have been able to acquire and are now exercising power over some of our political, legal and policy systems, with the results now apparent in Washington DC.

 

[ggies07]

This was a very enlightening and sad documentary on coal miners. The fact that we have a president who continues to promote this awful industry instead of signaling the end for them and creating a new path for these people is appalling.

I highly recommend this doc.

 

[nwdiver]

This was a very enlightening and sad documentary on coal miners. The fact that we have a president who continues to promote this awful industry instead of signaling the end for them and creating a new path for these people is appalling.

I highly recommend this doc.

Hmmmm.... doesn't appear to be streaming anywhere yet. Hopefully it'll show up on Netflix soon.

I think sometimes scientists lead with the science, when they should just lead with the common sense first.

No... from my experience 'common sense' causes FAR more misunderstandings ESPECIALLY with energy and climate science.

Common sense is informed by experience and culture (ideology). The idea that man can't possible effect something as large as the earths climate is driven by 'common sense'.

I know people that thought spending ~2x as much on a backyard wind turbine was a wiser investment than PV because 'look how much it's moving'. OR very intelligent people that thought solar thermal was better than solar PV 'cause the sun makes things hot.... we've had discussions on this forum over wether anthropogenic heat sources were a meaningful contributor to global warming.... that's 'common sense' at work....

You have to look at the numbers. The scientific method was devised BECAUSE 'common sense' so often fails us. Scientists aren't wrong to lead with science... we just have a scientifically illiterate public. THAT'S what needs to change. We need smarter people not dumber answers....

But... it's not knowing or understanding that's the weak link here... it's cognitive dissonance.

 

[ohmman]

No... from my experience 'common sense' causes FAR more misunderstandings ESPECIALLY with energy and climate science.

Common sense is informed by experience and culture (ideology).

Well said. Common sense doesn't connect dots unless they're very, very close. To your list of experience and culture, I'll add natural cognitive heuristics (grouping, recency biases, etc.) into the mix.

Maybe you've heard the phrase, "they may be educated, but they have no common sense," or one of its variants. I always think, "well, that's because they've learned how unreliable it is."

 

[ggies07]

Hmmmm.... doesn't appear to be streaming anywhere yet.

It's on iTunes or Amazon Prime to rent for $4.99

 

[Driver Dave]

No... from my experience 'common sense' causes FAR more misunderstandings ESPECIALLY with energy and climate science.

I guess I'm using the wrong word.

Maybe explaining it Simply? Basic? Without need for data?

Because when I say we are digging up trapped carbon, tossing it in the air, and that traps more heat.
Something like that, people seem to get it more that showing them data, charts, graphs.

My point is: we aren't going to suddenly train the whole population in the scientific method.

So look for ways that make sense simply without having the need to understand all the science.

This gets close to what I mean:
How Tesla Will Change The World - Wait But Why

 

[Skotty]

I generally support public science figures like Neil Tyson because they seem to do a good job of representing the science in a way that is interesting. Hopefully, they strike a good balance for most people between too simple (the common sense standpoint?) and too dry/complex (the real science). You need to draw people in with enough science show to give them confidence in the science, but not so much real science to lose their interest before confidence sets in. Need to draw people to that point where they say "you know what? I'm convinced your a valid expert, you don't need to get more technical, I will strongly consider your conclusions and advice.". Maybe that is what Driver Dave is trying to say, more or less.

 

[nwdiver]

My point is: we aren't going to suddenly train the whole population in the scientific method.

That actually SHOULD be the goal. It's far more attainable than it seems and is likely easier than tackling climate change denial. Disseminating even watered down facts about climate change is essentially treating the symptom instead of the disease. I work with a lot of educated people... but ~95% of them deny climate science... they view the scientific consensus as just one opinion among many... they're not thinking critically and they aren't scientifically literate. Most of them can explain reasonably well how humans are effecting Earths climate (From the perspective of reality and physics) they just reject that 'opinion' because they're scientifically illiterate.

Never underestimate the power of cognitive dissonance... even once people accept reality there are no guarantees that they will conform to it Plenty of physicians that treated lung cancer but continued to smoke......

Don't get me wrong... science educators like NDT are critical too... but the real front in the battle to fight climate change denial and inaction is much more with human psychology than science education. Understanding the 'Bystander effect' is more critical to fighting climate change than understanding the 'Greenhouse effect'

 

[dandelot]

I think sometimes scientists lead with the science, when they should just lead with the common sense first.

Common sense is the lubrication that helps us through every day, but it is a poor guide to truly new situations and a poor guide to public policy issues.

Read the Duncan J Watts book "Everything is Obvious: Once you know the answer" to understand the limits of common sense.

 

[S'toon]

Then and now: Photographers document rapid melting of world's glaciers

 

[ggies07]

I just finished watching this and I have to say it was nice to see another perspective from a different group of people talking about how we have to tackle this problem of climate change.

This shows how climate change is an accelerator to multiple areas of life, which are all interconnected, and it affects not only our national security, but the security for each country in the world. Now that we have a globally connected economy, everything we do affects each other at a faster rate.

The ending expresses that the only way to truly secure our nation is to wing itself off of fossil fuels and rely on renewables.

Everyone needs to see this. It's $4.99 on iTunes or Amazon Prime.

A new doc on climate change from the military perspective:

 

[ggies07]

Besides Elon, Bill is the other guy I admire for his stance at wanting to help our planet and species.

The Question I Get Asked the Most - Resilience

I think this is a great quote from Bill on the subject of cynics.

No, the people calling environmentalists hypocrites for living in the real world are people who want no change at all. Their goal is simply to shame us and hence to quiet us. So we won’t make them feel bad or disrupt the powers that be.

 

[ggies07]

Look at this *sugar*. The nerve of Heartland.........

She has read the whole book and given how each chapter is wrong. I started reading it, but got some angry I had to stop.

The Sustainable Schoolteacher: An Open Letter to Teachers on the Heartland Institute Mailings

has started distributing a packet of propaganda (Why Scientists Disagree about Global Warming) in waves to all science teachers in the country with the goal of reaching 200,000 educators.

 

[ZsoZso]

Look at this *sugar*. The nerve of Heartland.........

She has read the whole book and given how each chapter is wrong. I started reading it, but got some angry I had to stop.

The Sustainable Schoolteacher: An Open Letter to Teachers on the Heartland Institute Mailings

Ah, Heartland, same bunch who spread misinformation and doubt about the effects of smoking in the 70s. Have you seen the documentary "Merchants of Doubt" ? Very eye opening!

 

[ggies07]

Ah, Heartland, same bunch who spread misinformation and doubt about the effects of smoking in the 70s. Have you seen the documentary "Merchants of Doubt" ? Very eye opening!

Yep, and read the book. Good stuff.

 

[dhrivnak]

Or watch the documentary Merchants of Doubt. They did a good job with it.

 

[ggies07]

Live chat with Amory Lovins and others about the electrified revolution in personal mobility.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10150802938404987

 

[S'toon]

Climate change has caused the massive Kaskawulsh Glacier in the Yukon to retreat so much that its meltwater abruptly switched direction, in the first documented case of "river piracy" in modern times.

Instead of flowing into the Slims River and then north to the Bering Sea, the water has changed course and now flows south toward the Kaskawulsh River, the Gulf of Alaska and the Pacific Ocean, scientists have found.

Also known as stream capture, river piracy is a term used to describe a geologic phenomenon where a stream or river is diverted toward another body of water. It's usually caused by a dramatic tectonic event, such as a landslide or glacial dam collapse.

"This was the first event we could find where river piracy occurred right under our noses and due to contemporary climate change," said Dan Shugar, a geoscientist at the University of Washington Tacoma and lead author of a study published Monday in the journal Nature Geoscience.

<snip>

Full article at:
A glacial river has a dramatic change of course in Yukon's Kluane Park

Canada is melting.

Like a popsicle taken out of the freezer and left on the counter, the permanently frozen ground in the northern reaches of this country is thawing at an ever faster rate.

Half of Canada is blanketed in some form of permafrost, including patches in the northern reaches of Ontario and the Prairie provinces.

But in many places, including around Inuvik, NWT, as much as 90 per cent of this "ground" is actually frozen water. (The rest is dirt, rocks and decomposed organic material that was once trees, shrubs, even animals.)

For years now, buildings in Inuvik have been gradually sinking into the ground as it softens. Others are so unstable, they are literally sliding off their foundations.

<snip>

When permafrost thaws, all the organic material previously trapped in it releases methane into the atmosphere.

"It scares me," said Kumari Karunaratne, a permafrost expert who works for the Northwest Territories Geological Survey. "This methane that's being released is being released over huge areas across the north. And it's continually seeping out."

Methane is a greenhouse gas that is 25 times more potent than carbon dioxide. So, as climate change speeds up the permafrost melt, the permafrost melt will exacerbate climate change.

By exactly how much, it's impossible to say. Karunaratne won't even try to guess, because measuring it is difficult and imprecise. The area where it's happening is vast and much of it remains uninhabited and unexplored.

But there are dramatic examples that show just how much methane is bubbling up from underground. Some lakes in the Arctic are so full of it, if you punch a hole in the ice you can light the escaping gas on fire.

YouTube has videos of researchers and others doing it in Alaska and Siberia. But the same thing is happening in the Northwest Territories.

<snip>

Full article at:
'It scares me': Permafrost thaw in Canadian Arctic sign of global trend

 

[3mp_kwh]

Look at this *sugar*. The nerve of Heartland.........

I'm still not past how they helped such a mild mannered Judge Gorsuch become the Supreme Court's first bastard.