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Climate Change / Global Warming Discussion

Discussion in 'Energy, Environment, and Policy' started by Raffy.Roma, Feb 3, 2013.

  1. DragonWatch

    DragonWatch Small FootPrint

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    Unless you are looking to have your head explode, do not read this article! Donald Trump’s Extract-Everything Energy Policy Dooms Us All By reading this article, you begin to wonder how much a difference we can make beyond living what you/I preach.

    Leadership was in my very early adulthood, back in the sixties, demonstrated for me; and I have never heard it again ~ though I have repeated it probably five times.
    Take a string, laying it out in a nice straight line. Now, with your fingers, push from either end. The result, even if you played this out in your mind, is that the string bunches up; or as some people refer to as herding cats. Straighten out the string and this time pull it in the direction you wish to have the string go; yes, it follows you.
    No, life is not that simple, but that is all I have. . .
    Funny, a lot of kids shoes do not have shoelaces these days.
     
  2. mspohr

    mspohr Active Member

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    I agree. Thoroughly discouraging article. Unfortunately, all true. Trump is going all in for his fossil fuel funders. Corruption.
    I think we should consider that beyond Trumps "leadership", there are larger forces at work. Just a few things that could counteract Trumps drill everywhere plan:
    - It is now cheaper to build and run renewable wind and solar than to operate existing fossil fuel power plants. This means that people won't be building new fossil fuel plants and will be shutting down these expensive plants. They will be investing in wind and solar. This is basic economics.
    - The US is flooding the market with cheap oil and is poised to continue. The result of this is that prices will drop. Demand for oil and gas is fairly inelastic. That is, transportation, heating, power generation demand is relatively fixed and responds primarily to the level of economic activity, not price. People don't suddenly commute more or ship more stuff or turn up the heat in their house when prices drop. We are starting to see oil prices drop in response to US production. The oil cartel will have to face painful cuts in production to keep prices up.
    - The rest of the world will reap the benefits of cheap renewable energy. Trump may slow US adoption but that will put us at a competitive disadvantage.
    - Corporations will invest in the cheapest energy and that is wind and solar (and battery storage). The basic economics of energy is shifting and I don't think Trump can change that. It would be nice to have Trumps leadership to adopt renewables but that is not going to happen.
     
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  3. Darmie

    Darmie Member

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    This is worded in such a way that it's the CO2's fault for the temperature increase, when in fact, it's the driver behind the wheel who is at fault when the vehicle is started by their efforts. If we are so critical it's man made global warming, then why is not the driver held responsible?
     
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  4. Merrill

    Merrill Active Member

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    I do not think that everything that Trump wants will happen, like the above from mspohr says renewables are cheaper and do not forget that lots of countries are not going to allow ice cars in the future. It is unfortunate that we are not going to be the leader in the environmental area.
     
    • Like x 1
  5. Peter_M

    Peter_M Member

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    I'm hoping we will see the signatories to the Paris accord (i.e. the whole planet minus the US) moving away from buying US oil because of these policies. I'm not talking about a boycott, just a shift in preference that will put downward pressure on US oil prices vs. other sources and hopefully send a bit of a message.
     
  6. DragonWatch

    DragonWatch Small FootPrint

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    Meanwhile folks, my finger in the dike is getting close to merging with the soil at sixty-eight:) I need a sign, please show me a sign:)
     
  7. beeeerock

    beeeerock Active Member

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    • Like x 1
    • Love x 1
  8. nwdiver

    nwdiver Active Member

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  9. beeeerock

    beeeerock Active Member

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    Sadly for Canada, we could end up in the no-trade group. Yeah, we signed on to Paris, but our actions are exactly the opposite of what 'good faith' should require. Witness the Kinder Morgan pipeline from the tar sands to the port of Vancouver. Brewing to be a huge fight...
     
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  10. mspohr

    mspohr Active Member

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    I agree and predicted there would be retaliation for the US leaving the agreement. Good to see this happening.
    A carbon tax on imports from the US would send a message.
     
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  11. S'toon

    S'toon Knows where his towel is

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    Exactly!
     
  12. Xenoilphobe

    Xenoilphobe Active Member

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    The only vote left in this country is with your dollars. You are your only “super delegate”. Spend it where you have the greatest impact.
     
  13. SmartElectric

    SmartElectric Active Member

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    This strategy only fills the coffers of Russia and Saudi's.

    The cheaper oil gets the worse it is for everyone but the USA. Canada will suffer. Russia will suffer. Etc.

    I believe this is a trade war and Europe will happily buy cheaper oil while this plays out.
     
  14. buttershrimp

    buttershrimp Fresh Prince

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    This forum provides me the perfect opportunity to self promote to friendly audiences while remaining On topic! Fantastic!

     
    • Love x 1
  15. AZ Desert Driver

    AZ Desert Driver Rare combination

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    good video - you must have spent a lot of time to produce it. As I watched snark after snark - I got angry, frustrated at "our dear leader". I could not have done this project without screaming and flame-throwing at his absurd actions.
     
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  16. AZ Desert Driver

    AZ Desert Driver Rare combination

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    Here is a fantasy - Teach Trump that Solar is good!!! Even PAY him his required bribe to endorse it. Pay him more than Oil and Coal pays him [probably mostly in compliments and praise]. Would even that disgusting act save the world?
     
    • Like x 1
  17. DragonWatch

    DragonWatch Small FootPrint

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    Yes, a very good video ~ I had to force myself to view it all.

    I repeatedly refer back to 1968 when I graduated from high school and was released into the wild. We had talked about the continent growing/forming in the ocean not understanding its depth in addition to its width. During lunch we talked about the accumulation of plastics and all things floating; but not once did we think of solutions to reducing or eliminating the natural collection of our trash at sea. Adding hand held bottled water containers to the mix did not help.

    Germany has/had a law that required corporations/companies to recycle your waste from the products you purchase. So, when you bought an item and removed it from all the cardboard and plastic, you could offload it (trash) at the store ~ kind of hard for products sold over the internet, but I think you get the point. Besides, when I left Germany in 1993, the intranet/internet was a military thing and not how you ordered coffee to go. Love those egg bites:)

    What will be the tipping point of shifting mankind’s low self esteem to sustainability and inclusion. There so far is only one Earth, with a pipe dream of changing Mars into a sustainable life bearing planet; or are we just looking for a new place to dump our trash?

    Your video is the ugly truth of who we have become, or always have been:-( Now, what can we d to get out of this situation before it is too F~n late? My generation failed you/us, please do not let your generation fail you too.
     
  18. buttershrimp

    buttershrimp Fresh Prince

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    I should have done a blooper reel on some of the video I shot... basically after two or three minutes, you hear me say, “I can’t take this [email protected]$)&?king guy any longer”.
     
    • Funny x 1
  19. ggies07

    ggies07 Supporting Member

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    No wonder Trump wants to take funding away from using satellites to observe our planet....if you can't observe it, it's not happening, right? Therefore it's a non-concern for the public and spending......

    Sea Level Rise Is Accelerating: 4 Inches Per Decade (or More) by 2100

     
  20. DragonWatch

    DragonWatch Small FootPrint

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    @ggirke72 I fully appreciate your information about our rising sea level.

    It reminds me of the old myth about putting a frog into a pot of boiling water and he (frog) will jump out. Supposedly, some TV personality tried it live without testing the myth first. Again supposedly, the TV personality was shocked when he killed the frog on live TV. True story or not, brings into question our thinking and rationalization capabilities as humans.
     

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