Climate Change / Global Warming Discussion

[mspohr]

A grandma chained herself inside a Ford Pinto to try to stop a fracked gas pipeline in West Virginia

An interesting part of this story:
Judges have recently allowed protesters to use what’s called the “necessity defense,” where an individual can argue that the actions they took, even if they were illegal, were necessary to prevent an “imminent threat,” like climate change. And for the first time in Minnesota, it’s being used in a criminal jury trial.

 

[WannabeOwner]

its worked OK for me ...

Sharkleys lied and cheated. We changed bank (been with them for 3 generations), and will never use Sharkleys again, and take a dim view of anyone who asks me to transact with them if they do - they clearly think lying and cheating is OK so why would I want to do business with them?

We are with a much much better bank as a result. Complacency had stopped me shopping around.

Ditto VW. Never ever going to buy a car from them or any of their associated brands; liars and cheaters? no thanks.. Thanks to VW I looked at the market, rather than "just having another VW" and found Tesla.

Complacency had stopped me shopping around.

We replaced both our oil boilers with biomass (one of them was bust so had to do something). My friends told me I was mad (cost was fairly stiff) and then the price of oil shot up and friends were jealous. Since then we've done PV and Solar Thermal, and I can't wait to do Battery too. My friends are even more envious, but they missed the boat in some regards and are still dragging their feet ...

The we built a passive house extension. Friends thought it "expensive for an extension". Now they love the air quality, and I tell them that we don't use the main part of the house in Winter now, so we've turned down the thermostat and are saving 50% of our winter fuel cost. And we have not had a single winter-cold/cough in the 4 years since it was built - and had one every winter before that - and are nice and cool, without AirCon, in the current UK heatwave whilst they are sweltering in their poorly insulated houses. Now they think I have some sort of crystal ball - more the fool them.

As a nice side effect I have locked in very low running costs for our house,which will benefit me in retirement.

it's so disheartening to keep up the good fight when there is so much shame for society as a whole

Join me on the moral high-ground. Not only is the view great, but the fringe benefits have turned out to be surprisingly good,and are often overlooked.

 

[JRP3]

its why I'm so upset with Tesla screwing up the cell production lines and pushing everything back. Time is just a measure of change and there's too much change going on with our planet for **** ups.

Yeah, how dare Tesla make mistakes!

 

[skitown]

Yeah, how dare Tesla make mistakes!

Yep. And aren't they still technically "ahead" or "on time" for Model 3, given that they brought the date forward by 18-24 months from the original launch date once they experienced the overwhelming demand? I'm pretty sure they are.

 

[AZ Desert Driver]

I must have missed the memo - what is "Tesla screwing up the cell production lines"??? I thought Gig1 1 is producing more cells than anybody/everybody else, and that is current news [Aug 2018]

 

[mspohr]

Domino-effect of climate events could move Earth into a ‘hothouse’ state
Domino-effect of climate events could move Earth into a ‘hothouse’ state

It could be much worse than we think.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

Hi. I used to post in this thread a while back. Some of you may remember me...

I haven't done this in a while and could use some help with this guy...

Anyone who feels like helping out?

This discussion is from this thread:

Too many Tesla's/EVs in household - would you get a BMW 530e instead of another Tesla?

That/this started roughly in post #76 in that thread...

.../ The earth would be going trough a cooling period if it wasn't for man made green house gas emissions.

Not sure how your predicting that. Earth has been through many many cycles over it's lifetime and they are not exactly predictable, cycles have existed before the first human was born. That's not to say I don't think humans are not escalating global warming, but even if we stopped 100% pollution right now it's not like the earth is just going to start cooling down because of that, it will just stop escalating the problem.

I'm no expert, but as I understand it, prior to humanity emitting massive amounts of greenhouse gases, the Sun was the No. 1 factor that controlled the Earths climate. That, and fluctuations in CO2 levels and other green house gas levels in the atmosphere.

Here's my source for the Sun's current cooling trend:

Sun & climate: moving in opposite directions | skepticalscience.com

All info on that site (skepticalscience.com) is written by climate scientists, and based on climate science.

This one is also relevant for our current discussion:

What does past climate change tell us about global warming? | skepticalscience.com

There are tons of things that affect climate change, the sun itself obviously warms and cools, and major volcanic eruptions (also likely meteor strikes) have made huge impacts. Humankind is certainly affecting the environment and climate change as well. Truth in the matter is we don't have data over a long enough period of time to draw any real conclusions and we won't in our lifetime. 100k years is a drop in the bucket as far as climate change on earth and we have only recently really started looking into climate change, less than 200 years of monitoring and making hypothesis about many past events and modeling things using simulations.

NASA GISS: Science Briefs: Super-Eruptions, Climate and Human Survival

The issue is always determining what is the cause and what is the effect, and depending on which side of the fence the article your reading is biased, it can skew things one way or another. One thing I'm always skeptical of right away is article only listing the past few thousand years, even worse if it's only considering the past 100's of years and worst of all if it draws conclusions only from the last 10's of years.

Even this is only a few million years worth of data.

Another thing that allot of people don't think about is the effect of manufacturing a new vehicle on the environment (junking an older one) vs just driving an older one.
When Used Cars Are More Ecofriendly Than New Cars
Probably, the most eco friendly thing to do is to buy a used 3 banger geo metro

 

[ggies07]

Hi. I used to post in this thread a while back. Some of you may remember me...

I haven't done this in a while and could use some help with this guy...

Anyone who feels like helping out?

This discussion is from this thread:

Too many Tesla's/EVs in household - would you get a BMW 530e instead of another Tesla?

That/this started roughly in post #76 in that thread...

Sounds like he needs to watch this short, 8 minute video. A lot of what he is arguing is debunked by Katharine.

 

[Glamisduner]

Sounds like he needs to watch this short, 8 minute video. A lot of what he is arguing is debunked by Katharine.

Perhaps read the post before throwing me under the buss, the video is directly corresponds to what I posted above. I say the planet is is warming and they say it should be going into an ice age but if you look at the overall history of the plant it has been warming over all for a very very long time and 150 years of research is but scratching the surface. Also video makes many assumptions, like all ice ages are created from our orbit, which is impossible to prove it's certainly a huge factor but no the only thing that can create cooling. A super volcano, could go off tomorrow and the cooling process would start all over again.

Also, context is missing, which I stated that people with 4ev's and wanting an ICE might consider a truck OMG gross polition baby killing global warming machines. Trucks have uses currently not addressed by EV options. Over all electric cars certainly help the environment, but driving an EV alone is not enough to stop climate change. Most power on our grid is still produced by burning coal. But using electricity opens up options for cleaner power to help curb pollution. However Electric power also has limitations. Your not going to find a supercharger in the middle of the desert, battery tech out is currently heavy, so adaptation of electric planes is not economical. I guess space-X should also stop launching rockets because they are so bad for the environment?

 

[mspohr]

Hi. I used to post in this thread a while back. Some of you may remember me...

I haven't done this in a while and could use some help with this guy...

Anyone who feels like helping out?

This discussion is from this thread:

Too many Tesla's/EVs in household - would you get a BMW 530e instead of another Tesla?

That/this started roughly in post #76 in that thread...

I think the mistake you are making is attempting to use science and reason with a person who is willfully ignorant of both. I have found that this is a complete waste of time... always.

 

[nwdiver]

Perhaps read the post before throwing me under the buss, the video is directly corresponds to what I posted above. I say the planet is is warming and they say it should be going into an ice age but if you look at the overall history of the plant it has been warming over all for a very very long time and 150 years of research is but scratching the surface. Also video makes many assumptions, like all ice ages are created from our orbit, which is impossible to prove it's certainly a huge factor but no the only thing that can create cooling. A super volcano, could go off tomorrow and the cooling process would start all over again.

Also, context is missing, which I stated that people with 4ev's and wanting an ICE might consider a truck OMG gross polition baby killing global warming machines. Trucks have uses currently not addressed by EV options. Over all electric cars certainly help the environment, but driving an EV alone is not enough to stop climate change. Most power on our grid is still produced by burning coal. But using electricity opens up options for cleaner power to help curb pollution. However Electric power also has limitations. Your not going to find a supercharger in the middle of the desert, battery tech out is currently heavy, so adaptation of electric planes is not economical. I guess space-X should also stop launching rockets because they are so bad for the environment?

Is there a point buried in there somewhere? Not sure what you're trying to get at.... CO2 is the dominant FORCING mechanism.

Given that and the fact that we're facing a crisis in terms of the altered radiative balance threatening a climate capable of supporting our society I view fools fuel consumption in the same way as cannibalism. Sure... if there are absolutely NO OTHER OPTIONS... fine. But you don't do it for fun and it's something to be ashamed of....

 

[Glamisduner]

View attachment 324495
I think the mistake you are making is attempting to use science and reason with a person who is willfully ignorant of both. I have found that this is a complete waste of time... always.

 

[Glamisduner]

Is there a point buried in there somewhere? Not sure what you're trying to get at.... CO2 is the dominant FORCING mechanism.

Given that and the fact that we're facing a crisis in terms of the altered radiative balance threatening a climate capable of supporting our society I view fools fuel consumption in the same way as cannibalism. Sure... if there are absolutely NO OTHER OPTIONS... fine. But you don't do it for fun and it's something to be ashamed of....

Right, it's all about Cars, and no one should have any fun unless they are using an electric vehicle. Anything can be towed or hauled by your electric vehicle. Phytoplankton population reduction has nothing to do with the amounts of C02 in the environment, electric cars will solve that problem too right?

The best thing anyone can do for the environment is to kill themselves so they can stop damaging the environment.

Anyone want some koolaid?

Everyone here should sell their electric cars, horse and buggy is way better for the environment, and you can always ride your bike to work even when it's hailing, raining or 110 deg plus outside. Good grief. If your going to state stuff like that "NO OTHER OPTIONS" and you drive an electric car you are contradicting yourself.

 

[ggies07]

Perhaps read the post before throwing me under the buss, the video is directly corresponds to what I posted above. I say the planet is is warming and they say it should be going into an ice age but if you look at the overall history of the plant it has been warming over all for a very very long time and 150 years of research is but scratching the surface. Also video makes many assumptions, like all ice ages are created from our orbit, which is impossible to prove it's certainly a huge factor but no the only thing that can create cooling. A super volcano, could go off tomorrow and the cooling process would start all over again.

Also, context is missing, which I stated that people with 4ev's and wanting an ICE might consider a truck OMG gross polition baby killing global warming machines. Trucks have uses currently not addressed by EV options. Over all electric cars certainly help the environment, but driving an EV alone is not enough to stop climate change. Most power on our grid is still produced by burning coal. But using electricity opens up options for cleaner power to help curb pollution. However Electric power also has limitations. Your not going to find a supercharger in the middle of the desert, battery tech out is currently heavy, so adaptation of electric planes is not economical. I guess space-X should also stop launching rockets because they are so bad for the environment?

Couple of things:

1) Are you an atmospheric scientist who studies this topic every day? Because Katharine Hayhoe is, so I think she knows what she is talking about in the video. Her creds:

BIO | Katharine Hayhoe

-I’m an atmospheric scientist. I study climate change.

-I began my career with a B.Sc. in physics and astronomy from the University of Toronto. My first published papers were in the field of observational astronomy, on variable stars and galaxy clustering around quasars.

-headed to the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign to work on a M.S. in atmospheric science with Don Wuebbles

-To date, my work has resulted in over 125 peer-reviewed papers, abstracts, and other publications and many key reports including the U.S. Global Change Research Program’s Second National Climate Assessment; the U.S. National Academy of Science report, Climate Stabilization Targets: Emissions, Concentrations, and Impacts over Decades to Millennia; and the 2014 Third National Climate Assessment. In addition to these reports, I have led climate impact assessments for a broad cross-section of cities and regions, from Chicagoto California and the U.S. Northeast.

2) The grid is getting cleaner and cleaner every day. Evidence:

New Data Show Electric Vehicles Continue to Get Cleaner

2009:

2016:

 

[Glamisduner]

Couple of things:

1) Are you a climate scientist who studies this topic every day? Because Katharine Hayhoe is, so I think she knows what she is talking about in the video. Her creds:

BIO | Katharine Hayhoe



2) The grid is getting cleaner and cleaner every day. Evidence:

New Data Show Electric Vehicles Continue to Get Cleaner

2009:

2016:

I want to love this post. I cannot disagree that the grid is getting cleaner, heck I'm buying a friggin tesla to do my part.
I am not a climate scientist. Are you? Where did I disagree with your expert?

Whats your take on population control vs the environment?

 

[nwdiver]

Right, it's all about Cars, and no one should have any fun unless they are using an electric vehicle. Anything can be towed or hauled by your electric vehicle. Phytoplankton population reduction has nothing to do with the amounts of C02 in the environment, electric cars will solve that problem too right?

The best thing anyone can do for the environment is to kill themselves so they can stop damaging the environment.

Anyone want some koolaid?

Everyone here should sell their electric cars, horse and buggy is way better for the environment, and you can always ride your bike to work even when it's hailing, raining or 110 deg plus outside. Good grief. If your going to state stuff like that "NO OTHER OPTIONS" and you drive an electric car you are contradicting yourself.

Nice straw man. Still trying to figure out what your point is....

Did I mention EVs once? I really couldn't care less what you drive or what you do... as long as it's as fools fuel free as possible....

Whats your take on population control vs the environment?

The Earth can support 100B people living responsibly using WWS as their energy source but not 50M fools fuel addicts. Population isn't our problem.

 

[Glamisduner]

Nice straw man. Still trying to figure out what your point is....

Did I mention EVs once? I really couldn't care less what you drive or what you do... as long as it's as fools fuel free as possible....

I was brought into this mess, I didn't choose to be dragged into this discussion, other than defending my re-post.

 

[felixculpas]

Haven't read the entire thread by any means but I'd rather be wrong about accepting climate change and reap the benefits of cleaning up the planet regardless vs believing it's not real and suffering the consequences if it turns out it was real all along.

 

[SageBrush]

Haven't read the entire thread by any means but I'd rather be wrong about accepting climate change and reap the benefits of cleaning up the planet regardless vs believing it's not real and suffering the consequences if it turns out it was real all along.

That is because you do not succumb to the stupidity of denialists. They are just looking forward to the day when they can say "ah well ... too late to do anything ... and who knows if anything was possible anyway."

They should all be shipped off to the moon.

 

[nwdiver]

That is because you do not succumb to the stupidity of denialists. They are just looking forward to the day when they can say "ah well ... too late to do anything ... and who knows if anything was possible anyway."

They should all be shipped off to the moon.

Yep