nwdiver
Well-Known Member
I don't really understand the overlap between SPP and ERCOT. I know Lubbock was trying to leave SPP for ERCOT.
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Climate Change / Global Warming Discussion
- Thread starter Raffy.Roma
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I don't really understand the overlap between SPP and ERCOT. I know Lubbock was trying to leave SPP for ERCOT.
Maybe not most of TX because of the ERCOT island, but other states between CA and TX are also short on electricity right now because of the cold.
From 9-3 PM the last couple days we've had plenty of solar and wind power during the day. This time of year California often has too much and has to curtail some of it because of insufficient in-state transmission. For example, on Feb 16th, almost 5 GWh had to be curtailed for "Local and System Economic" reasons. At 2 PM when about 2 GW was curtailed, we still imported around 500 MW and had 5.6 GW of natural gas going. It would be really nice to figure out how to use all the solar and wind and dial down the fossil fuels even farther.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Why is Texas suffering power blackouts during the winter freeze?
While Republicans have been blaming frozen wind turbines for the state’s blackouts, officials and experts say that malfunctions in natural gas operations played the largest role in the power crisis.
Following those blackouts, the Ferc gave a series of recommendations to Ercot to prevent future blackouts, including increasing reserve levels and weatherizing facilities to protect them from cold weather.
Ed Hirs, an energy fellow at the University of Houston, told the Washington Post that Ercot “limped along on underinvestment and neglect until it finally broke under predictable circumstancesWith the climate crisis likely to trigger more freak weather events like the one Texas is suffering it is noteworthy that there are places that experience frigidly cold weather that rely heavily on wind turbines and manage to have electricity in the winter. In Iowa, a state which sees freezing temperatures more often than Texas, nearly 40% of electricity is generated by wind turbines.
”.”.
While Republicans have been blaming frozen wind turbines for the state’s blackouts, officials and experts say that malfunctions in natural gas operations played the largest role in the power crisis.
Following those blackouts, the Ferc gave a series of recommendations to Ercot to prevent future blackouts, including increasing reserve levels and weatherizing facilities to protect them from cold weather.
Ed Hirs, an energy fellow at the University of Houston, told the Washington Post that Ercot “limped along on underinvestment and neglect until it finally broke under predictable circumstancesWith the climate crisis likely to trigger more freak weather events like the one Texas is suffering it is noteworthy that there are places that experience frigidly cold weather that rely heavily on wind turbines and manage to have electricity in the winter. In Iowa, a state which sees freezing temperatures more often than Texas, nearly 40% of electricity is generated by wind turbines.
”.”.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Texas
US mayor quits after telling residents it's 'sink or swim' amid deadly snowstorm
“No one owes you or your family anything; nor is it the local government’s responsibility to support you during trying times like this! Sink or swim, it’s your choice! The City and County, along with power providers or any other service owes you NOTHING!,”
A Texas mayor has resigned after telling residents of his city to “Get off your ass and take care of your own family!” in the face of a devastating once-in-a-generation winter storm that has killed more than 20 people across the country and left millions without power in the state. Anger mounts over Texas power blackouts as cold maintains its grip Colorado City mayor Tom Boyd told the 4,000 or so of his fellow citizens in his town that he was “sick and tired of people looking for a damn handout” and blamed “a socialist government” for the dire situation.
US mayor quits after telling residents it's 'sink or swim' amid deadly snowstorm
“No one owes you or your family anything; nor is it the local government’s responsibility to support you during trying times like this! Sink or swim, it’s your choice! The City and County, along with power providers or any other service owes you NOTHING!,”
A Texas mayor has resigned after telling residents of his city to “Get off your ass and take care of your own family!” in the face of a devastating once-in-a-generation winter storm that has killed more than 20 people across the country and left millions without power in the state. Anger mounts over Texas power blackouts as cold maintains its grip Colorado City mayor Tom Boyd told the 4,000 or so of his fellow citizens in his town that he was “sick and tired of people looking for a damn handout” and blamed “a socialist government” for the dire situation.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
The Texans facing blackouts and burst pipes: 'Do I wait for the ceiling to cave in?'
“Governor Abbott has failed to protect Texans from the climate crisis, promoting a deadly fossil fuel economy and selling us out alongside other leaders for privatization and destructive deregulation,” said Paris Moran, digital director of the Sunrise Movement, in a statement. “He failed to ensure we were prepared for an extreme weather event like this, and now he’s failing to protect us in our moment of need.
“Governor Abbott has failed to protect Texans from the climate crisis, promoting a deadly fossil fuel economy and selling us out alongside other leaders for privatization and destructive deregulation,” said Paris Moran, digital director of the Sunrise Movement, in a statement. “He failed to ensure we were prepared for an extreme weather event like this, and now he’s failing to protect us in our moment of need.
SmartElectric
Active Member
Ontario Canada has a similar issue with Nuclear surplus overnight and we curtail by venting steam (sigh!).
But there is still 100MW of gas running during curtailment due to combined heat and power (CHP) gas plants that supply hot water to hospitals and other critical infrastructure, so it's not practically possible to turn off some gas plants fully.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
'California and Texas are warnings': blackouts show US deeply unprepared for the climate crisis
Texas, like California last summer, failed to plan for the extreme weather it is now facing. And as in California, its equipment was overdue for upgrades. Last weekend, the state’s grid operators found their estimates of just how much energy residents would require this winter were off. At the same time, officials had allowed several power plants to go offline for maintenance. As temperatures dropped, households used more and more energy to keep warm – triggering rolling blackouts. By Monday, the icy conditions also disabled power plants, further diminishing the state’s power supply amid the deadly storm.Texas, like California last summer, failed to plan for the extreme weather it is now facing. And as in California, its equipment was overdue for upgrades. Last weekend, the state’s grid operators found their estimates of just how much energy residents would require this winter were off. At the same time, officials had allowed several power plants to go offline for maintenance. As temperatures dropped, households used more and more energy to keep warm – triggering rolling blackouts. By Monday, the icy conditions also disabled power plants, further diminishing the state’s power supply amid the deadly storm.
To address all of these issues, scientists and advocacy groups are increasingly pushing for a decentralized power system that empowers communities to generate and store their own energy, using renewable sources – while investing in infrastructure that will allow regions to share power when disaster strikes.
Texas, like California last summer, failed to plan for the extreme weather it is now facing. And as in California, its equipment was overdue for upgrades. Last weekend, the state’s grid operators found their estimates of just how much energy residents would require this winter were off. At the same time, officials had allowed several power plants to go offline for maintenance. As temperatures dropped, households used more and more energy to keep warm – triggering rolling blackouts. By Monday, the icy conditions also disabled power plants, further diminishing the state’s power supply amid the deadly storm.Texas, like California last summer, failed to plan for the extreme weather it is now facing. And as in California, its equipment was overdue for upgrades. Last weekend, the state’s grid operators found their estimates of just how much energy residents would require this winter were off. At the same time, officials had allowed several power plants to go offline for maintenance. As temperatures dropped, households used more and more energy to keep warm – triggering rolling blackouts. By Monday, the icy conditions also disabled power plants, further diminishing the state’s power supply amid the deadly storm.
To address all of these issues, scientists and advocacy groups are increasingly pushing for a decentralized power system that empowers communities to generate and store their own energy, using renewable sources – while investing in infrastructure that will allow regions to share power when disaster strikes.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Newsflash - the Phanerozoic goes back about 500 million years, not 10,000 or so. Hopefully the rest of your science knowledge is better. Here, let me help you:
Geologic time scale - Wikipedia
Now, the CO2 levels over that time:
File:Phanerozoic Carbon Dioxide.png - Wikipedia
And, temperatures:
What's the hottest Earth's ever been? | NOAA Climate.gov
Not much correlation is there?
But let's play on your home field, the graph you shared with us. Care to overlay the Holocene temperature reconstructions over that? Correlation maybe ... 0.3? Pretty thin soup.
Oh, BTW: "Denier" has long history and roots: A term used by religious extremists to demonize the Apostate and Agnostic:
'Denier,' 'Alarmist,' 'Warmist,' 'Contrarian,' 'Confusionist,' 'Believer,' » Yale Climate Connections
Literary and Theological Review
Skeletons of a Course of Theological Lectures ...
Little surprise members of the Climate Cult reach for that slur so quickly and so naturally. I have better things to do while I wait for my Model S, Good Day Sir.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Better than yours, clearly. My point, clearly stated, was that the rate of change matters. Humans and our environment have not had the time to gradually adapt to suddenly increasing CO2 levels. It doesn't matter if at some point in the distant past things were hotter or colder, there weren't 8 billion humans trying to survive then, let alone the current biosphere on which we depend.
CrazyRabbit
Active Member
considering wind in Texas is over 25Gw, the output Monday night from wind was pitiful.
Attachments
I see we have the same old comments about prior high CO2 levels. As before the key fact of reduced solar output is conveniently missing. The implication is always that scientist who spend their lives studying climate are somehow ignorant of this basic data or else members of a vast conspiracy. The truth is that scientist are well aware. They generated the estimates. However, they tale all data, including solar output, into account.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
The person you are responding to is trolling.
Reasonable comments might instead be
1. How did wind do over the ~ 4 days of the 'freeze' compared to baseline this time of year
2. How long did the most severe dip last ?
I'm curious what the supply curve would have been if the entire state was PV+Wind+4 hours storage+weather_reseliency
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mspohr
Well-Known Member
Here's some information
How Texas’ Power Generation Failed During the Storm, In Charts How Texas’ Power Generation Failed During the Storm, In Charts
“All sources underperformed expectations,” said Daniel Cohan, an associate professor of civil and environmental engineering at Rice University in Houston. “But far, far more than everything else combined were the shortfalls from natural gas.”
During the blackouts, the grid lost roughly five times as much power from natural gas as it did from wind. Natural gas production froze, and so did the pipelines that transport the gas. Once power plants went offline, they were not prepared to restart in the below-freezing conditions.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Exactly what I was looking for -- thanks.
- It is amusing to see that PV outperformed. Panels love cold weather
- Wind took hits as deep as NG (up to 50% of historical) but for much shorter durations
As an aside, some of the photos I see of Texas homes that look like ice caves must mean that their building standards are awful
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"Demand for natural gas to heat homes and businesses also spiked, contributing to shortages. And high gas prices further disrupted generation, as operators who could not turn a profit took their plants offline."
?!? I guess only the strong will survive. Strong as in someone who has installed solar+battery.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Texas energy companies celebrate 'hitting the jackpot' in system that rewards failure with billions
For electricity providers in Texas, this has been the best week ever. The same goes for natural gas companies. And coal companies. And drilling companies. And on down the line. The entire energy industry, including the owners of Texas wind farms, has seen a tremendous surge of profit. That surge was so great that on just two days this week, Monday and Tuesday, providers could easily have cleared more profit than they do in a full year of ordinary, full-scale production. Not providing adequate electricity to Texas is much more profitable than providing every Texan with the power they need. By design.
For electricity providers in Texas, this has been the best week ever. The same goes for natural gas companies. And coal companies. And drilling companies. And on down the line. The entire energy industry, including the owners of Texas wind farms, has seen a tremendous surge of profit. That surge was so great that on just two days this week, Monday and Tuesday, providers could easily have cleared more profit than they do in a full year of ordinary, full-scale production. Not providing adequate electricity to Texas is much more profitable than providing every Texan with the power they need. By design.
Merrill
Merrill
I’m having a hard time understanding what went on in Texas with the outages, it is my understanding that because the utilities have not winterized there infrastructure that millions of people were without electricity and water for weeks. Also there were people who died because of this situation. Now I read this headline and find out that the utilities are thrilled because of the increased charges that they are able to collect. I’m I missing something because it seems disgusting that they feel this way and are able to make more money when so many are subjected to the above conditions.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Yes, I agree. It is disgusting. However, that's the way Texas works. Extreme capitalism without any effective regulation.
When Naomi Klein wrote The Shock Doctrine in 2007, she described a system of “disaster capitalism” in which neoconservative free markets exploited extraordinary situations. Using excuses ranging from hurricanes to government overthrows, systems were instituted on “Chicago school” economics, with a laissez-faire anything goes policy for the wealthy, and a strict insistence that the government do nothing to help the poor. The forces behind this movement are well aware that neither nations nor individuals in the midst of crisis are equipped to negotiate fair long-term solutions. The whole point is disasters make people uniquely vulnerable, both economically and emotionally, to being manipulated by scam artists. That can be people hawking water for 10 times its normal price. That can be companies selling electricity for 27,000% its usual rate. Those who impose neoconservative market systems are simply at the top of the scam artist food chain.
Such systems insist on “austerity” when it comes to social programs designed to lift people out of poverty or buffer them from the next disaster. That’s because these buffers make people less vulnerable, and so less likely to agree to the conditions imposed by the disaster capitalists when the screws get turned again. These systems also insist that the other end—the end where billionaires play with options and financial instruments—has to be essentially unlimited. That makes every disaster an opportunity for a fat payday.
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