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Climate Change / Global Warming Discussion
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EVNow
Well-Known Member
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Warned of ‘massive’ climate-led extinction, a US energy firm funded crisis denial ads
Not only did Southern Company fail to adjust its business model towards cleaner energy sources, it began paying for print advertisements saying climate change was not real. “Who told you the earth was warming,” asks one ad from 1991.
Years after receiving multiple credible warnings about the atmospheric damage caused by its reliance on burning fossil fuels, Southern Company paid over $62m to organizations with a long record of spreading disinformation about climate change, a report released today by a fossil fuel watchdog called the Energy and Policy Institute has found. Southern has now become the third-largest greenhouse gas polluter in the US due to its fleet of coal and gas-burning power plants, and until relatively recently was still denying the science behind global temperature rise. “Do you think it’s been proven that CO2 is the primary climate control knob?” the Southern Company CEO, Tom Fanning, was asked on CNBC in 2017. “No, certainly not,” he replied.
Not only did Southern Company fail to adjust its business model towards cleaner energy sources, it began paying for print advertisements saying climate change was not real. “Who told you the earth was warming,” asks one ad from 1991.
Years after receiving multiple credible warnings about the atmospheric damage caused by its reliance on burning fossil fuels, Southern Company paid over $62m to organizations with a long record of spreading disinformation about climate change, a report released today by a fossil fuel watchdog called the Energy and Policy Institute has found. Southern has now become the third-largest greenhouse gas polluter in the US due to its fleet of coal and gas-burning power plants, and until relatively recently was still denying the science behind global temperature rise. “Do you think it’s been proven that CO2 is the primary climate control knob?” the Southern Company CEO, Tom Fanning, was asked on CNBC in 2017. “No, certainly not,” he replied.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Climate policy dragged into culture wars as a ‘delay’ tactic, finds study
Climate policy is being dragged into the culture wars with misinformation and junk science being spread across the internet by a relatively small group of individuals and groups, according to a study.
The research, released on Thursday, shows that the climate emergency – and the measures needed to deal with it – are in some cases being conflated with divisive issues such as critical race theory, LGBTQ+ rights, abortion access and anti-vaccine campaigns. The study, published by the Institute for Strategic Dialogue and the Climate Action Against Disinformation coalition, found that although outright denials of the facts of the climate crisis were less common, opponents were now likely to focus on “delay, distraction and misinformation” to hinder the rapid action required.
It found that the urgent need for wide-ranging mitigation and adaptation strategies were continually downplayed or condemned as unfeasible, overly expensive, disruptive or hypocritical. And it identified a number of specific “discourses of delay”, including:
Elitism and hypocrisy: these posts focused on the alleged wealth and double standards of those calling for action, and in some cases referenced wider conspiracies about globalism or the “New World Order”. The study identified 199,676 mentions of this narrative on Twitter (tweets and retweets) and 4,377 posts on Facebook around the time Cop26 took place
Absolution: it found 6,262 Facebook posts and 72,356 tweets around Cop26 which absolved one country of any obligation to act on climate by blaming another. In developed western countries this often focused on the perceived shortcomings of China and, to a lesser extent, India, claiming they were not doing enough so there was no point in anyone acting.
Unreliable renewables: over a longer period – from 1 January to 19 November 2021 – the study found 115,830 tweets or retweets were shared, alongside 15,443 posts on Facebook, that called into question the viability and effectiveness of renewable energy sources.
Climate policy is being dragged into the culture wars with misinformation and junk science being spread across the internet by a relatively small group of individuals and groups, according to a study.
The research, released on Thursday, shows that the climate emergency – and the measures needed to deal with it – are in some cases being conflated with divisive issues such as critical race theory, LGBTQ+ rights, abortion access and anti-vaccine campaigns. The study, published by the Institute for Strategic Dialogue and the Climate Action Against Disinformation coalition, found that although outright denials of the facts of the climate crisis were less common, opponents were now likely to focus on “delay, distraction and misinformation” to hinder the rapid action required.
It found that the urgent need for wide-ranging mitigation and adaptation strategies were continually downplayed or condemned as unfeasible, overly expensive, disruptive or hypocritical. And it identified a number of specific “discourses of delay”, including:
Elitism and hypocrisy: these posts focused on the alleged wealth and double standards of those calling for action, and in some cases referenced wider conspiracies about globalism or the “New World Order”. The study identified 199,676 mentions of this narrative on Twitter (tweets and retweets) and 4,377 posts on Facebook around the time Cop26 took place
Absolution: it found 6,262 Facebook posts and 72,356 tweets around Cop26 which absolved one country of any obligation to act on climate by blaming another. In developed western countries this often focused on the perceived shortcomings of China and, to a lesser extent, India, claiming they were not doing enough so there was no point in anyone acting.
Unreliable renewables: over a longer period – from 1 January to 19 November 2021 – the study found 115,830 tweets or retweets were shared, alongside 15,443 posts on Facebook, that called into question the viability and effectiveness of renewable energy sources.
Places in Alaska are seeing this with whole towns having to be moved to keep from sinking into oblivion.
A Hotter Russia | Sophie Pinkham
After Russia’s February 24 invasion of Ukraine, President Volodymyr Zelensky and countless ordinary Ukrainians entreated Europe to embargo Russian energy,www.nybooks.com
Russia is warming 2.5 times as fast as the world on average, and the Arctic is warming even faster. The cliché, avidly promoted by Moscow, is that the country will be a relative winner in climate change, benefiting from a melting and accessible Arctic shipping route, longer growing seasons, and the expansion of farmland into newly thawed areas. Gustafson counters, with a dry but persuasive marshaling of facts, that in the redistribution of wealth and power that will result from climate change, Russia is doomed. After reading Klimat, Russia’s attack on Ukraine begins to look like the convulsion of a dying state.
About two thirds of Russia is covered in permafrost, a mixture of sand and ice that, until recently, remained frozen year-round. As permafrost melts, walls built on it fracture, buildings sink, railways warp, roads buckle, and pipelines break. Anthrax from long-frozen reindeer corpses has thawed and infected modern herds. Sinkholes have opened in the melting ground, swallowing up whole buildings. Ice roads over frozen water, once the only way to travel in some remote regions, are available for ever-shorter periods. The Arctic coast is eroding rapidly, imperiling structures built close to the water.
IMO the climate deniers only listen to climate change when it directly affects them. This self-serving BS is why we have such difficulty getting through to them. It's their right to be selfish, and they will take that right to their (and everyone else's) grave. Unfortunately, by the time the climate change issue immediately impacts enough of these deniers... it'll be too late.
The New York Times recently published an article about how the Great Salt Lake in Utah was suffering from the effects of over-building, water diversion, and climate change. This isn't new, it's been an issue that folks in Utah have been dealing with since the lake elevation dramatically decreased about a decade ago.
As the Great Salt Lake Dries Up, Utah Faces an ‘Environmental Nuclear Bomb’ (Published 2022)
Climate change and rapid population growth are shrinking the lake, creating a bowl of toxic dust that could poison the air around Salt Lake City.
This article highlights Utah lawmaker Joel Ferry (R). In the article he talks about how important it is for the folks in Utah to start thinking about the environment and help mitigate the possible outcome of the Great Salt Lake becoming a dust bowl and killing the ecosystem. Of course, this particular fellow has a ranch on the northern part of the lake.
The irony / hypocrisy is that... Ferry has historically voted against climate initiatives. The Sierra Club has scored his participation in climate and environment policies with an F. Ferry doesn't support broad policy to benefit the environment; because most of those initiatives didn't really resonate with him personally. But when it comes to the Great Salt Lake, he's all uppity trying to garner support. It takes the possibility of losing his ranch for him to actually start beating the drum that others should step up and help him to avoid a "potential environmental nuclear bomb" (aka "save his ranch").
Here's the Scorecard (Ferry is at the top of the center column).
IMO the climate deniers only listen to climate change when it directly affects them. This self-serving BS is why we have such difficulty getting through to them. It's their right to be selfish, and they will take that right to their (and everyone else's) grave. Unfortunately, by the time the climate change issue immediately impacts enough of these deniers... it'll be too late.
The New York Times recently published an article about how the Great Salt Lake in Utah was suffering from the effects of over-building, water diversion, and climate change. This isn't new, it's been an issue that folks in Utah have been dealing with since the lake elevation dramatically decreased about a decade ago.
As the Great Salt Lake Dries Up, Utah Faces an ‘Environmental Nuclear Bomb’ (Published 2022)
Climate change and rapid population growth are shrinking the lake, creating a bowl of toxic dust that could poison the air around Salt Lake City.www.nytimes.com
This article highlights Utah lawmaker Joel Ferry (R). In the article he talks about how important it is for the folks in Utah to start thinking about the environment and help mitigate the possible outcome of the Great Salt Lake becoming a dust bowl and killing the ecosystem. Of course, this particular fellow has a ranch on the northern part of the lake.
The irony / hypocrisy is that... Ferry has historically voted against climate initiatives. The Sierra Club has scored his participation in climate and environment policies with an F. Ferry doesn't support broad policy to benefit the environment; because most of those initiatives didn't really resonate with him personally. But when it comes to the Great Salt Lake, he's all uppity trying to garner support. It takes the possibility of losing his ranch for him to actually start beating the drum that others should step up and help him to avoid a "potential environmental nuclear bomb" (aka "save his ranch").
Here's the Scorecard (Ferry is at the top of the center column).
View attachment 814607
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Climate crisis is ‘battering our economy’ and driving inflation, new book says
Forget Ukraine, coronavirus, corporate greed and “supply chain issues”, when it comes to inflation the climate crisis is the real, lasting, worry, according to a new book, and one that’s only likely to get worse. Climatenomics, by former White House reporter and director of Environmental Entrepreneurs (E2) Bob Keefe, is a narrative account of how the climate crisis is fundamentally altering not just the US but global economies. Within its pages, Keefe lays out what he sees as the false choice between creating jobs and driving economic growth and protecting the planet, and how “supply chain disruptions” has become a euphemism for the effects of climate change.
Forget Ukraine, coronavirus, corporate greed and “supply chain issues”, when it comes to inflation the climate crisis is the real, lasting, worry, according to a new book, and one that’s only likely to get worse. Climatenomics, by former White House reporter and director of Environmental Entrepreneurs (E2) Bob Keefe, is a narrative account of how the climate crisis is fundamentally altering not just the US but global economies. Within its pages, Keefe lays out what he sees as the false choice between creating jobs and driving economic growth and protecting the planet, and how “supply chain disruptions” has become a euphemism for the effects of climate change.
It will not happen as quickly as many wish.
First, infrastructure will take time plus money, and the business model isn't rosy when 75% of Users charge at home.
Second, fashion is about to bump into hard reality - production is hard, and a recession looms, with rising interest rates, price increases, and supply constraints.
Third, the planet is going to survive......so take a breather. We think in centuries; the planet in eons.
I won't be around for centuries, and I have no grandchildren. But a lot of people will be in a world of hurt because we are moving too slowly. So I will be just as impatient as I like, and do what I can.
What's your excuse?
rhumbliner
Member
As George Carlin so sagely pointed out, “The planet will survive. We won’t”.
My excuse is the climate issue is exaggerated.
Yes, climate is changing, but not as fast and not as extremely as promoted. It's weather, and it changes...but it's now excuse for....anything.
I would note that virtually all 'climate scientists' are employed or paid via government.
Just as tobacco companies employed researchers to greenwash their products, scientists know who pays the bills and what is expected.
I'm afraid Al Gore has successfully saddled us with a wealth and power transfer only government can enjoy.
A more rational mix of nuclear, fossil, and green energies are where we need to get. You cannot just turn off one for another.
I'm not into the religious aspects of the environmental fervor, nor the excesses of treating sciences as religion.
Not to say he's not right, but Elon Musk is not a messiah.
70% of the glaciers I visited in Glacier Park as a young adult, that have been there 7000 years, are gone. That's what I see with my own eyes, and it's replicated all over the world. The oceans are rising and islands that have been present as long as history are underwater. The folks who study these things are 95% or more agreed, which is amazing if you think about it. If you aren't aware of these things then it is either willful or you have drunk someone's koolaid.
The solutions are complicated. I'll give you that. But the only promotion I am aware of is coming from the opposite end of the spectrum.
It's OK, and good, to be skeptical, but not to the point of refusing to see what's going on right in front of you.
While I agree with the "rational mix..." thoughts I'm not so certain of your comments re the government paying climate scientists. Using that rationale we can't trust police on crime because they're paid by governments too, amongst other examples readily available. But I think we're straying a bit far now into politics....
The government owned scientist stuff is conspiracy theory nonsense. Sorry @tangible1, Al Gore doesn't have the money to hire every climate scientist all over the world for generations and make them do his personal bidding.
Al Gore doesn't do literally anything, especially spend his own money. Don't think for one minute that he does anything but promote himself.
However, he developed the political environmental strategy and we are now saddled with it, right or wrong.
I'm not saying it's wrong, but I am saying exaggerated. And I'm not promoting conspiracy theories, just stating human motivations are a factor.
The job market for climate science is a consequence of that strategy.
Stay rational, my friends.
Not quite.
Norway has seen their glaciers grow over the last few years, as an example which I visited myself. Really interesting country and people.
The subject isn't simple and is fraught with emotion.
I've nothing to hide and have stated my opinion openly.
We are free to agree and disagree.
Right. He developed the political strategy for the entire world. For decades. That's what you think? Think again. And why would such a strategy persist if it wasn't founded in reality? No, that is absolutely a nutbag conspiracy theory.
Your information is out of date. And while sometimes due to climate change some glaciers (change in major weather patterns) do grow for a while, on the whole glaciers are going away, and on a human timescale, not a matter of eons, as you put forth earlier.
Norwegian glaciers are shrinking all over the country
A new mapping of the country’s glaciers finds that they have shrunk by 14 per cent.
sciencenorway.no
Yes, we are all entitled to opinions.
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