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Climate facts to warm to
- Thread starter tonybelding
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Tdave
Member
Tdave: Check out "Oceanic anoxic event". Wikipedia has an article on the subject titled "anoxic event".
In short: The difference in temperature between the frozen poles and the equator drives the ocean circulation. Cold, oxygen-rich water from the poles sinks to the bottom and flows towards the equator where it resurfaces. No polar ice - no circulation. Then the oceans die below the surface layer.
This causes a gigantic buildup of organic matter on the ocean floor - there is nothing left alive down there to consume it. This is how the earth gets rid of the excess carbon - and also how oil is created.
We are burning the oil and gas that was trapped during earlier anoxic events, so I can't quite see how we can avoid triggering another one. Now, that will be an interesting thing to witness.
In short: The difference in temperature between the frozen poles and the equator drives the ocean circulation. Cold, oxygen-rich water from the poles sinks to the bottom and flows towards the equator where it resurfaces. No polar ice - no circulation. Then the oceans die below the surface layer.
This causes a gigantic buildup of organic matter on the ocean floor - there is nothing left alive down there to consume it. This is how the earth gets rid of the excess carbon - and also how oil is created.
We are burning the oil and gas that was trapped during earlier anoxic events, so I can't quite see how we can avoid triggering another one. Now, that will be an interesting thing to witness.
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The anoxic event is only one consequence of the melting poles. We must suppose that considerable amounts of methan hydrate will be released into the atmosphere as a consequence of global warming and the melting north pole. Methan is a powerful greenhouse gas. The amount of carbon stored on the floor of the oceans in form of methan hydrat amounts to double of all other existing carbon stores on earth (coal, oil, gas). Search with methan hydrate
SteveTheTech
Member
Global climate change is a topic that none of us should ignore. However misinformation is rampant. Some people have far too much riding on to stick to the facts and information like this tends to be a bit subjective.
This an excerpt from Physics 8A at UC Berkley text that is the single most informative piece of literature from a very respected mind in the field I have come across.
http://muller.lbl.gov/teaching/Physics10/PffP_textbook/PffP-10-climate.pdf
I listened to Prof. Rich Mullers' Physics 8a class were he went into great detail about this and many other very interesting topics it is fascinating. For anyone interesting in physics and how the world works check out the podcasts; http://muller.lbl.gov/teaching/Physics10/PffP.html
This an excerpt from Physics 8A at UC Berkley text that is the single most informative piece of literature from a very respected mind in the field I have come across.
http://muller.lbl.gov/teaching/Physics10/PffP_textbook/PffP-10-climate.pdf
I listened to Prof. Rich Mullers' Physics 8a class were he went into great detail about this and many other very interesting topics it is fascinating. For anyone interesting in physics and how the world works check out the podcasts; http://muller.lbl.gov/teaching/Physics10/PffP.html
Some of Rich Mullers explanations are very misleading. His explanation that CO2 is following and not preceeding GW is clearly misleading. GW caused by humanity shows an inverse relation. This is probably because he is a physicist and not a geologist.
The IPCC report two years ago was plenty of facts and well balanced. But the IPCC report didn't go further. The report is a consensus of thousands of scientists - as a consequence it MUST be conservative. It doesn't get the whole picture.
Most voices among the climatologists warn us of a dangerous tipping point, which is believed to take place at about 2°C/4°F of GW. Nobody really knows what will happen beyond this tipping point. Most Climatologists say we'll be beyond a level of change, that's still "secure". We were just looking a little bit beyond this tipping point.
As a MD I say to you: Let's face the truth and try to act accordingly. Take it easy, enjoy the voyage through life and beautyful landscape driving your EV.
The IPCC report two years ago was plenty of facts and well balanced. But the IPCC report didn't go further. The report is a consensus of thousands of scientists - as a consequence it MUST be conservative. It doesn't get the whole picture.
Most voices among the climatologists warn us of a dangerous tipping point, which is believed to take place at about 2°C/4°F of GW. Nobody really knows what will happen beyond this tipping point. Most Climatologists say we'll be beyond a level of change, that's still "secure". We were just looking a little bit beyond this tipping point.
As a MD I say to you: Let's face the truth and try to act accordingly. Take it easy, enjoy the voyage through life and beautyful landscape driving your EV.
mt2
Member
From the Union of Concerned Scientists' "Ask a Scientist" column, Do All-electric Cars Provide Global Warming and Pollution Reductions If They Get Their Energy from Power Plants That Use Natural Gas or Coal?
http://www.ucsusa.org/publications/ask/latest.html
Balanced, but simplistic. Perhaps some good talking points.
http://www.ucsusa.org/publications/ask/latest.html
Balanced, but simplistic. Perhaps some good talking points.
W.Petefish
Active Member
I will say that not everyone has it right or wrong.
We (as a planet) are coming out of an ice age. Look at paleoclimate data if you don't believe me.
As for "global warming being caused by green house gases" partially true but mostly misinformed. (academia does have its perks) The release of green house gases are hastening the climate cycle by trapping heat in the atmosphere. Paleoclimate data suggests that there have been far hotter climates (as much as +6degrees C). Again don't take my word for it. Wikipedia on Paleoclimatology.
I would be more concerned with atmospheric CO2 and CO concentrations.
Oh, we did discuss this to length in the Debunking Psuedo Science class that I had.
We (as a planet) are coming out of an ice age. Look at paleoclimate data if you don't believe me.
As for "global warming being caused by green house gases" partially true but mostly misinformed. (academia does have its perks) The release of green house gases are hastening the climate cycle by trapping heat in the atmosphere. Paleoclimate data suggests that there have been far hotter climates (as much as +6degrees C). Again don't take my word for it. Wikipedia on Paleoclimatology.
I would be more concerned with atmospheric CO2 and CO concentrations.
Oh, we did discuss this to length in the Debunking Psuedo Science class that I had.
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Thumper
Active Member
Whether its all man-made or all natural or some of each, the only real mitigation that will work in the long run is fewer humans to support and move into areas away from coasts. The likelihood of this happening is slim. Ugh!
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