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Climate settings

Discussion in 'Model S: User Interface' started by jweinstein, Apr 6, 2013.

  1. jweinstein

    jweinstein Member

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    #1 jweinstein, Apr 6, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2013
    I confess that I did not thoroughly scour the forums for this answer, so kindly redirect me if warranted.

    I took delivery on 4/1/13 in Anchorage, AK (no joke), and while winter is trying to give way to spring, the arctic forces are ahead at the moment. At any rate, the temperature last week was in the high 30's / low 40's and sunny. I wanted to vent fresh air with the heater completely off, so I manually configured the climate settings to: A/C off, fresh air, dashboard/face vents, and set the fan to 1 or 2. The temperature was on "LO". The range mode setting was selected, and warm air was coming out of the vents, so I presumed the heater was running. I disabled range mode, which is supposedly less efficient, and the air was cool, just like the outside temperature. What gives?

    Thanks for any and all guidance.

    Josh

    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1365305183.622860.jpg
     
  2. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    "LO" doesn't give you much if any heat. Set the temperature to something you find comfortable.
     
  3. Al Sherman

    Al Sherman It's about THIS car.

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    Correct me if I misunderstand but; I think the OP wants fresh air. Not heat. He's looking for a configuration that will simply circulate outside air through the cabin with out any conditioning either cold, or hot. I too have been trying to do this and am experiencing the same results. Does turning range off help? If so, why? I'm basically looking for a vent setting with the fan on.
     
  4. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Electron Pilot

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    I had asked this question earlier, and had assumed that you could achieve a "vent' mode by setting to LO, outside air, and A/C off. That's a surprise if turning range mode on makes it appear to use the heat.

    Whether this is a bug or by design, no matter how you look at it, it's just WAY too many steps to simply vent in outside air. That should be achievable with a simple toggle. Today is a beautiful day here in Virginia. Full sun, 67 deg F, and low humidity. I'd like to do the same. It shouldn't require more than a single touch.

    Jeez, I really wish Tesla had a way to publicly submit bugs/feature requests, and see their status. It's badly, badly needed, as I've reported several bugs since 4.1 that haven't yet been fixed (although one appears to have been fixed in 4.3), and I have no idea if they're disappearing into oblivion after I call ownership and inform them.
     
  5. jweinstein

    jweinstein Member

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    #5 jweinstein, Apr 7, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2013
    Al - Will you let me know if turning range mode off works for you? Agreed that this is too many steps "for a vent setting with the fan on".
     
  6. Jason S

    Jason S Model S Sig Perf (P85)

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    Another data point, but not answering the question directly:

    We don't use range mode at all with our Model S, and the car does tend to remember the settings between uses (V4.3 firmware now). So we've found doing custom: (AC off && fresh && turn up fan to 5) will provide a nice external air source. We don't touch the temperature with this -- I'm guessing changing the temp puts it back in auto mode.
     
  7. dtich

    dtich #P708

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    by any chance did disabling range mode switch the climate control back to auto, and did the a/c then kick in (causing cold air) because your temp setting was LO?

    i admit they haven't dekinked the hvac system fully yet, and your experience does sound counterintuitive, but there must be some way to make sense of it.

    disabling range mode would allow the heater to kick on more frequently and with great power, but then having a LO setting might have done what it was supposed to which is cool the cabin to 63F, presuming that it was warmer than that at the time... (which maybe it wasn't...)

    either way, it's not easy to get what you want sometimes with the hvac. i'll say that after 4.3 i have found using mostly auto (i usually force recycled air as opening doors and windows gets fresh air in the cabin regularly and it's more efficient. also living in la, the smog capitol of the area, the fresh air setting usually brings unwanted fumes in as well.. the air filter could be better i think. in bmw's i didn't feel much nastiness coming inside when using fresh air settings..) and adjusting the temperature gets the job done fairly well. i especially think leaving the vent selection on auto helps the circulation quite a bit. it sorta knows what it's doing. ymmv.
     
  8. jweinstein

    jweinstein Member

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    Yes, switching to range mode restored the settings back to auto, but I immediately put the climate settings once again to: A/C off, fresh air, dashboard/face vents and set the fan to 1 or 2 and temperature on "LO".
     
  9. neroden

    neroden Happy Model S Owner

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    Agree. My only way of dealing with this is to call Tesla and impress on them how serious the bug is. Then repeat a few weeks later. Then ask to speak to a supervisor... you get the idea. Internal communication seems to be poor. Bugs, and even "use cases", don't make it to engineering. Given that I told Tesla *well before production started* that they had to make the car work right at the drive-in (that is, the lights stay off and the radio stays on even when you open and shut the doors), *and they failed and got it wrong*, *and it's trivial to fix*, they are doing really appallingly at responding to customer bug reports.

    Anyway, so the original problem reported by the original poster is that "range mode" puts the heater on, even if you then set the temperature to LO? Strange indeed.
     
  10. Volker.Berlin

    Volker.Berlin Member

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    When you tried this -- had the car been driven, was it charging, or had it been sitting in the cold before? In the former two cases, the battery may have built up some excess heat, and without active cooling (A/C) you may get warm air even without the heater.

    Very nice picture, by the way... :)
     
  11. jweinstein

    jweinstein Member

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    #11 jweinstein, Apr 12, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2013
    I had to run a few tests to verify my experience, but even when the car is cold, the heater kicks on in range mode with the temperature set on "LO".
     
  12. Volker.Berlin

    Volker.Berlin Member

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    Thanks, interesting. I would love to hear some qualified comment from Tesla. It probably makes sense somehow, but I agree that it isn't obvious.
     
  13. Sparrow

    Sparrow S105/ Roadster 189

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    Yes, I found the same thing with my car. Range mode forces you to use heat even when you don't want it. It confused me when I first tried using range mode. It was bright and sunny, but only upper 40F outside. I had my ventilation off at first, but got a bit warm so I turned the fan on with temperature set to LO and instead of cooling down I got hotter. Ended up shutting down the fan and rolling the windows down instead on that trip. I later discovered that if I turned the range mode off I could run the fan with temperature set to LO without the heat coming on.
     
  14. Al Sherman

    Al Sherman It's about THIS car.

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    +1. Is there a reason to use range mode if you aren't turning the AC on anyway? I've been leaving it in range mode but does this do anything when the AC is off? IS there any point to leaving it there? Especially if one of your preferred configurations is venting fresh air?
     
  15. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    Here is some conjecture for you:

    First, 4.3 "tweaked" the temp controls just a bit so that the car wouldn't feel "cold" anymore when reaching set temperature. For me, this had a net effect of just adding 7 or 8 degrees to the set point, such that if I set 67 degrees, it would heat the car to 74-75.

    Second, when I turned on "range mode" the "LO" setting happens to come just below 67 degrees.

    So, I'm wondering if "LO" is basically 66 degrees plus the "fudge factor" of 7 or 8 degrees, and effectively it's trying to heat the car to 75ish degrees.

    When you're not in range mode, there's an extended temperature range - I can drop the temp to 60 or so before it shows "LO". This would mean "LO" is really 67-68 degrees after the 4.3 "fudge factor".
     
  16. Zapped

    Zapped Model S - PURE EV

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    After reading all this, what is the NO heat, NO a/c setting ? ( zero power consumption )

    Range Mode off, a/c off, outside air on, and temp. set to LO ?

    I assume the compressor will come on anyway if the battery needs cooling.
     
  17. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    Basically... as long as the car is not under 67 degrees ambient or so, based on my experience.
     
  18. Al Sherman

    Al Sherman It's about THIS car.

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    So I still have the same question(s). Is there a way to vent outside air into the cabin without consuming power (other than a fan), or having any kind of intervention from the heater or air conditioner? Does the use of range mode affect this operation?
     
  19. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    Climate control full off and windows down?
     
  20. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    Yes, range mode does affect this because the range of temperatures serviced by the CC system is smaller -- at least in my experience. I'm not aware of any way (other than mknox's suggestion) to guarantee the operation you're looking for, and the closest approximation is to have range mode off, temp on LO, A/C compressor off; and even then, you may find that at ambient temps < 68 deg F / 20 deg C the heater still runs a bit.

    Perhaps there's a bit of an ICEism hiding in here in that the "A/C compressor off" setting is there because it drains power in ICE cars but waste heat is always available (and has to be thrown away). Perhaps that setting simply needs to be changed to add a "heater off" toggle.
     

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