So I've been working at this area that's about a half hour drive from my home. I've had autopilot drive this route for me several times already with no problem. I would just hop on I-5 then turn on Autopilot and it would pretty much take me to the exit I need without any need for disengaging. I've done it so many times without issue, I was really confident in Autopilot's ability. Then just yesterday I had a really close call from getting into a wreck. I usually don't have it drive in the far left lane just because I get nervous when it gets close to the concrete dividers. I usually have it drive in the lane next to it. When I was about 10 minutes into the drive, it came to a part on the road where it curved to the right. There were several cars in my left and right lanes. As it went into the curve things seemed to be fine. Then shortly after, i heard a beep sound from the speakers, and it seemed the car didn't want to curve anymore. It drifted into far left lane and by the time I got my hands on the wheel my car was like 1/3 into the left lane already. So glad I didn't hit the car in that lane. Yanked the steering wheel maybe a little too hard to disengage and the car kind of fishtailed back into my original lane. No idea why the car had an issue with this curve. It's driven through it several times before with no issues. Just goes to show that you can't fully trust autopilot and always have to pay attention to what it's doing. Kind of has me worried about using the feature now when there are a lot of cars on the road and road has curves to it.
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Close call with autopilot...
- Thread starter bimmer88
- Start date
OxBrew
Active Member
...by the time I got my hands on the wheel my car was like 1/3 into the left lane already...
you are supposed to keep your hands on the wheel at all times. I've had it veer off course, but I catch it before it moves out of the lane.
Not saying it's ok that it did this in the first place, it should never do that. I only really use it on open mostly straight roads with no one around, and take over on anything remotely challenging.
you are supposed to keep your hands on the wheel at all times. I've had it veer off course, but I catch it before it moves out of the lane.
Not saying it's ok that it did this in the first place, it should never do that. I only really use it on open mostly straight roads with no one around, and take over on anything remotely challenging.
Yeah. That's what I did for some time. Used to always keep my hands on the wheel. I guess I got a little too comfortable after a while and started taking my hands off, only putting it back on to stop the nag. I never took my attention off the road though. Going to go back to keeping my hands on the wheel after this happened and will probably only use it on roads I know are mostly straight.
zoomer0056
Active Member
Be attentive and keep your hands on the wheel. AP is not hands free, as it was being used in this case. From the MSLR manual:
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I've never, for a second, bought into that BS disclaimer from Tesla. If the feature is called auto-steer, it's supposed to auto-steer. Same for Auto-pilot. Else, it's classic case of false advertisement.
More importantly, whenever I keep my hands on the steering wheel for any length of time, Autopilot will disengage. It take WAY more effort to "hover" your hands on the steering wheel then to drive the car yourself.
Same here.
Except that I let the stupid thing Autosteer on its own, and touch the steering wheel once every 30 seconds, whenever it complains.
On anything other than perfectly straight roads, I expect Autopilot to fail, and don't bother engaging the stupid thing. It's just safer that way.
My wife takes it a step further, and NEVER engages AP. Honestly, I have nothing to convince her to do otherwise.
Tesla claims that AP is safer than human drivers have never been independently audited, and are very likely to be bombastic fraudulent drivel.
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OxBrew
Active Member
You can think whatever you want to but it's designed as an eyes on/hands on system. It's not a BS disclaimer, it's the intended operating parameters.
Eyes on the road, hands on the wheel.
I totally agree that the name is crap, but you have to understand the limitations and be safe.
It's like someone who would argue that old dumb "cruise control" sounds like it should steer the car too, so it's the car's fault when it runs off the road and kills you in a fireball when you let it try to steer. Same thing. Read the instructions, use as intended.
Eyes on the road, hands on the wheel.
I totally agree that the name is crap, but you have to understand the limitations and be safe.
It's like someone who would argue that old dumb "cruise control" sounds like it should steer the car too, so it's the car's fault when it runs off the road and kills you in a fireball when you let it try to steer. Same thing. Read the instructions, use as intended.
bradtem
Robocar consultant
This is why people are writing articles imagining FSD is almost ready. You see it do something a few times, and you imagine it could do it 10,000 times in a row, which is the bar you need to reach. Right now FSD will do a few drives in a row without an error sometimes. But a trip is not just a road, it's every situation on that road, different traffic patterns, weather, position of the sun, etc.
OxBrew
Active Member
Exactly. This thread demonstrates why Tesla needs to seriously re-think how they release not only FSD but AP/TACC and EAP. There is serious mode confusion, not just in the moment of using it, but in the general concept.
And I don't fault anyone for thinking anything about any of this. If anyone thinks AP can drive the car hands free, that's on Tesla. All confusion is a DESIGN problem, full stop. Everything about it is on Tesla, from PR/Marketing, to the UI, coding, everything. They have to lock down 100% of everyone's expectations of what every facet of the whole ADAS suite is capable of, how we should use what and when.
If I was on any decision about any of this (either inside Tesla or at any NHTSA type agency world wide, I would issue a stop use order, turn it all off (except for legally required passive safety features), combined with a high profile campaign to rebrand every piece of this top to bottom, and re-issue it only after parsing out the functionality into really clear unambiguous bucks of functionality.
This is way too confused in the public's hive mind, it needs the plug pulled and basically start over.
OxBrew
Active Member
*buckets of functionality.
(too bad we can't edit anymore, at all. Oh well.)
Here's a missing close parentheses, for anyone who's still looking for it. Put it anywhere.
)
(too bad we can't edit anymore, at all. Oh well.)
Here's a missing close parentheses, for anyone who's still looking for it. Put it anywhere.
)
DCsportsfan
Member
I read through the informed consent for beta testing, looking for the ”for use on limited-access highways” only. There was none. I wondered if that meant I could now drive neighborhood and suburban streets. Between the abrupt stops, intermittently going over the double solid line on tight turns, inconsistent stop sign braking distance, and a near-miss pulling onto a two lane road from a hidden entrance, I’m sticking to interstate highways for now.
zoomer0056
Active Member
Maybe not in the consent but it's in the user manual, at least the MSLR manual (see post #4). Your experience also points the same way. There is text somewhere on the internet that says FSD us autosteer on city streets, but I don't know. I saw this about city streets:
Tesla have often said that the people who have accidents etc are the ones have have become comfortable with it and attribute it with abilities that it does not possess.
Drivers were doing that with AP1 long ago and they're still doing it now.
They check for hands on the wheel for a reason. That was caused by crazies getting into the back seat.
Five years and 65k miles of driving with AP and my car has not made it out of the driving lane once.
Drivers were doing that with AP1 long ago and they're still doing it now.
They check for hands on the wheel for a reason. That was caused by crazies getting into the back seat.
Five years and 65k miles of driving with AP and my car has not made it out of the driving lane once.
You are joking, right?
I can reliably get AP to drive out of the lane, an into median road divider any day, every day.
Y-split on the road. If AP sees a car ahead of mine, it will follow that car whichever direction that takes (left-ish or right-ish). If there is no car to follow, it will start erratically turning the wheel, hesitate, and proceed straight ahead for the median concrete island. Unless you take over the wheel, or slam on the brakes. Or both.
The same AP fail condition as the car had since ~4.5 years ago when I first got it.
Zero improvements in this, and few other, catastrophic failure conditions.
"The ability it does not possess" is the ability to Auto Pilot.
Regardless of what Tesla fraudulently claims.
BitJam
Active Member
Before I got FSDb I routinely used AP for 80+% of my driving. I loved it! Of course, FSDb is much much better and I use it for 98% of my driving now. Several of the most annoying issues with AP were fixed. But I treat them both as driver assist not driver replacement. I'm in charge, I'm in control, and I'm responsible. If the car nags me I use my left thumb to adjust the volume control. This is trivial to do because my hands are almost always on the wheel. Where they belong.
For me, AP and FSDb have both been great but they can do stupid, dangerous things sometimes so you have to be ready. They are terrible driver replacements but great driver assistants.
For me, AP and FSDb have both been great but they can do stupid, dangerous things sometimes so you have to be ready. They are terrible driver replacements but great driver assistants.
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