CNN denouncing FSD and Tesla

[AlanSubie4Life]

Uh, I did read this thread, did you?

"Driver's hands are off the wheel (and moving away), FSD is clearly not engaged ... in this clip."

Right, I agree (as I said!), but why is this clip relevant? It’s likely quite difficult to get FSD to engage in this circumstance. So it would not be surprising for a double pull of the gear stalk to fail.

Who knows how hard they had to work to get three failures? We’ll never know if it took 4 attempts or 100.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Uh, I did read this thread, did you?

"Driver's hands are off the wheel (and moving away), FSD is clearly not engaged ... in this clip."

It doesn't hit the dummy in that clip. Presumably Tesla would need to prove that it wasn't engaged when it hit the dummy.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

One last time…out of N attempts, where N is greater than three, FSD hit the dummy three times. Vehicle shows the red wheel of death the first time, and is signaling right (and moved right) the last two times. The camera work is terrible. Other items of interest are that it identifies the barrier wall as vehicles and maybe people.

 

[dduffey]

It doesn't hit the dummy in that clip. Presumably Tesla would need to prove that it wasn't engaged when it hit the dummy.

I never said anything about the dummy, where did you read that?

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

Just call the number he provides and tell the Capitol switchboard to ban this Ad.
That is why he gave the number, no?

 

[Daniel in SD]

I never said anything about the dummy, where did you read that?

That's my point. You said that Tesla needs to sue but if FSD was engaged when they hit the dummy then Tesla's case seems very weak.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I never said anything about the dummy, where did you read that?

Sure. But I guess I am not sure how it follows that Tesla has grounds to sue as you said. They would presumably have to at least prove the claims in the affidavits false, though I am not a lawyer, so maybe even that would not be enough. They did not claim that they hit the dummy on that run, or every time (in the ad they make the claim it happens “over and over again” which is a very vague statement). They only made claims about three successful attempts (I only read the driver affidavit). “During three of the tests…”

 

[Alset2]

Those out of focus clips from the "raw footage" video have 2 interesting things though.

1st-why is the turn signal on?

but because it is brings me to point #2...

Which is there is a warning bubble on the screen almost the whole time in all the clips...obviously I do not know what it says (focus issues) but most likely it is the "car will not brake while foot is on accelerator..." or what ever it says.

I should know this warning word for word as I see it a lot when I'm overriding FSD to speed up quicker when a car turns in front of me...but I don't.

Thank God I have only had one instance with anything like this but I was in FSD coming over a bridge in the rain and at night and all of a sudden the car bolted into the other lane, red wheels of death came screaming at us and it slammed on brakes (going about 50mph) and all because some one was walking on the side of the road and close to the edge of the lane. Once this got our attention it turned out this person was very impaired and kind of wobbling down the road. They did not even look up at us lol

Im not defending FSD in any way, just sharing my experience, which makes me think this would be hard to understand unless some ones foot was on the pedal over riding AEB.

I think a real test would have include video of the pedals along with time stamping at a minimum..but all we get is a REALLY blurry video form a so called professional??? doesn't seem right.

But I have been wrong before and I don't trust FSD enough to ignore all the "rules" I acknowledge when I engage it.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Are you folks clear on the difference between AP and FSD? Sure seems like you're mixing the two up a lot, and so did the attack-ad.

Not sure what you are referring to. FSD Beta 10.12 was engaged in City Streets mode (clear from the visualizations) at the time of the three collisions. Clarification about the AP question around the Nurburgring provided already.

 

[ZenRockGarden]

Not sure what you are referring to. FSD Beta 10.12 was engaged in City Streets mode (clear from the visualizations) at the time of the three collisions. Clarification about the AP question around the Nurburgring provided already.

I'm talking about the very clear capture from the video which is literally claiming FSD is on, while it is obviously not - you can dismiss this as just editing, but if they're not smart or honest enough to get this right, what other mischief has been afoot?

And I'm talking about posters on here claiming FSD was sold as a level 5 system, while referring to behaviors of AP in level 2 mode

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

but most likely it is the "car will not brake while foot is on accelerator..." or what ever it says.

I doubt it as that would be in conflict with the affidavit. The footage is terrible. There is a better picture of a warning in their PDF, but I still cannot make it out (and may not be the same warning).

Wisdom of crowds can probably identify it though based on the word length:

but if they're not smart enough to get this right, what other mischief has been afoot?

Likely quite a bit - like engineering a setup where it fails (cones, clothing, etc.), and trying a lot of times and only reporting the failures (which we all expect, since we know (and Tesla tells us!) FSD Beta will sometimes run into people and stationary or moving objects).

I don’t know why Tesla would sue anyone for confirming something that Tesla themselves claim to be the case. This seems like a clearcut case of the “wrong thing” (not stopping) at the “worst time” (when a child is standing in the middle of the road).

 

[Daniel in SD]

I'm talking about the very clear capture from the video which is literally claiming FSD is on, while it is obviously not - you can dismiss this as just editing, but if they're not smart or honest enough to get this right, what other mischief has been afoot?

And I'm talking about posters on here claiming FSD was sold as a level 5 system, while referring to behaviors of AP in level 2 mode

You need to consider that it might be intentional to get more engagement. As a publicity campaign it seems to be working pretty well.
They want the question to be "was FSD engaged?", not a debate about the safety of testing FSD on public roads (the record so far seems to show that it is safe).

 

[swedge]

Here is a link the the "raw footage":

Frame.io

app.frame.io

37 seconds in is a clip which shows the Tesla screen. A few seconds before impact, the hands on the red wheel take-control-now warning appears, and the car begins to slow quickly, stopping after hitting the mannequin. I suspect it beeped loudly and urgently as well.

The car told the driver to take over, but he chose not to. He was directly violating the instructions given in real time by the car.

Still, It is an interesting corner case: a stationary object, viewed with monocular vision is difficult to distinguish from an image painted on the road. (Think shadows triggering phantom breaking.). Once the car gets closer, the position of the top of the object moves downward relative to the background more quickly making it easier to perceive its location. If the object was toward the edge of the road rather than centered exactly straight ahead, that would give stronger and earlier parallax cues. It makes me wonder how many times they tried before finding this exact corner case. Dead center case, actually, double pun intended.

But I figure they had to use mannequins because a real six year old would not stand still that long.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Elon says it is a scam video, so that settles it. And it is kind of a scam, since it is contrived. However, I am surprised Elon didn’t use this opportunity to remind people that indeed this type of failure is expected, just like Tesla says.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1557570812617580544