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CNN Tech Article On GM's Self-Driving Ambitions

Discussion in 'Autonomous Vehicles' started by GOTMEEV, Dec 15, 2016.

  1. GOTMEEV

    GOTMEEV Member

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    Interesting article today from CNN Tech. No mention of Tesla. Too bad. Enjoy!

    GM to build self-driving cars in Detroit

    "We expect that GM will become the first high-volume auto manufacturer to build fully autonomous vehicles in a mass-production assembly plant," Barra said in a speech at GM's headquarters.
     
  2. kort677

    kort677 Banned

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    CNN? contrived news network.
    I would suggest that the piece offered was merely a promotional item, could it be the reason tesla was ignored be that the production and placement of this piece was paid for by GM?
     
  3. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    GM has been driving Volts in California and Arizona using full autonomous software and hardware since June 2016. There are 40 cars on the road.

    The recent press conference was to acknowledge the cooperation of the State of Michigan in allowing autonomous cars on their roads for testing. Not a big deal, just a thank you thing. Politicos like kudos in front of cameras, GM threw them a cookie.
     
  4. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    What is odd, is while I did know GM had been testing autonomy since 2014, I did not know it had migrated to public roads last June.

    Did I miss the press conference? Or did they not have one?
     
  5. GOTMEEV

    GOTMEEV Member

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    How ironic given the EV1.
     
  6. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    If you skip the Black Helicopters over Grassy Knoll essays, read up on the real EV1, not the legend. I was there, and I worked on it. I watched GM dump massive dollars into marketing, and leasing them at a huge loss, and at the end, there were unclaimed cars. Only 58 owners wanted a lease extension. But only if the pricing was at a loss, and with 15 years of parts support required by law.

    Truth hurts: There was no market for EV's at the time. Prices were too high, demand too low. There was over 5 times the demand for $125k Chevrolets in 2009-2012.

    Who killed the Electric Car? First it was the lower cost in the early 1900's of ICE tech. Second time was the American Car Buyer. We did not want them.

    But continue the urban legend. We all want to think the CIA blew up the twin towers, Kennedy was killed by the Mafia, no man set foot on the moon, and alien corpses and spaceships are hidden in a building in the desert.
     
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  7. GOTMEEV

    GOTMEEV Member

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    "I was there, and I worked on it."

    Sounds like you have an entirely different perspective. Do you believe it was too early for the automotive industry to pursue electric cars at that time?
     
  8. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    Costs were too high, and Lithium wasn't affordable at all. Lead Acid was the first batch, NiMH was the second batch. Even the NiMH was heavy.

    So to combat the extra weight, they opted for magnesium, aluminum, advanced polymers, and aerospace quality complex castings. Which wildly drove up the price. Much of the engineering and component fab was done by Hughes Aerospace, a division of GM used for satellites and other orbital/sub-orbital projects for the DOD.

    Other companies threw lead batteries into the existing cars and said screw the weight and performance. GM wanted to make a "real" EV with ICE level performance and 100 miles of range. Just too expensive back then, but they went ahead to prove a point. It could be done.

    EDIT - It was technological success but an economic failure. It did not help that it was named one of the 50 Worst Cars of All Time. Both Time Mag? and WSJ? trashed the EV1 publically.
     
  9. GOTMEEV

    GOTMEEV Member

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    Thanks for sharing! While I'm partial to Tesla, I hope GM and others succeed in the EV space.
     
  10. kort677

    kort677 Banned

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    the media still trashes the EV concept. I suspect the money spent by ICE manufacturers has just a bit of influence on their reportage.
     
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  11. Beryl

    Beryl Member

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    Guess GM caught on that not including at least ACC in the Bolt was a huge mistake. I'm happy to hear that GM may actually offer an affordable EV vehicle with the improved safety provided with autonomous driving elements.
     
  12. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    #12 McRat, Dec 16, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2016
    I have both ACC and non-ACC vehicles.

    ACC is not a safety feature, it's a convenience feature. AEB is a safety feature, which is available on the Bolt.

    In fact, the GM AEB seriously kicks ass. Probably the world's best that I've seen at any price.



    EDIT - any system that assists you in ignoring traffic around you is not a safety system. We are probably going to discover that full autonomy is safer when you stay vigilante. Much like a pilot using a FMS.

    PS - Am I supposed to Dislike Your post now? That button is so confusing.
     
  13. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    #13 Tam, Dec 16, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2016
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  14. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    Much of what is "known" about the demise of urban inner city rail systems is urban legend. Even your Wiki acknowledges it.

    Read the article. I'm going to say it's not biased based on other materials.

    The only time GM was convicted was pretty dicey: "GM was fined $5,000 and GM treasurer H.C. Grossman was fined $1.[39] The trial judge said "I am very frank to admit to counsel that after a very exhaustive review of the entire transcript in this case, and of the exhibits that were offered and received in evidence, that I might not have come to the same conclusion as the jury came to were I trying this case without a jury," [40] explicitly noting that he might not himself have convicted in a bench trial."

    ======================================================================================


    And the Dealership Bill in Michigan? Mostly urban legend,

    It is true that Michigan has had a Dealership Only model for decades. It is true that House Bill 5606 strengthened that position.

    It is also true that NADA and to a lesser degree, automakers, supported the bill, but that would not be enough to garner the level of support the bill had.

    The bill was passed 38-0 in the Senate and 106-1 in the House, then signed by the Governor.

    I am against the Dealership Only model. But I'm not easily manipulated. I don't believe that kind of political result comes from a single company's lobbying. You want a villain in the 5606 debacle? IT WAS THE PEOPLE OF MICHIGAN. But that is not politically correct, and lacks enough conspiracy to score web hits.

    ======================================================================================

    And no, nobody has ever requested the President Elect, or the sitting President to stop the sales of electromotive vehicles. That is bullshiit. It's not even urban legend because no rational people believe it.

    Electrek is a terrible source for real news. Their most recent claim is Teslas charge at "almost" 270 miles in 30 minutes (
    almost 3 times 90 miles in 30 minutes). What's worse, is they actually know that to be false.







     
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  15. EinSV

    EinSV Active Member

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    GM built the EV-1 until 1999 and officially shut down the EV1 program in late 2003. Tesla was formed in July 2003 -- a few months earlier.

    General Motors EV1 - Wikipedia
    Tesla Motors - Wikipedia

    These facts alone demolish the argument that the economics of EVs are what prevented GM from continuing to pursue an EV program.

    What GM and other automobile manufacturers lacked was the vision and long-term commitment required to invest in improving battery and EV technology and the massive increases in production capacity necessary to allow EVs to enter the mainstream. Tesla had the vision and commitment that GM lacked and started its EV program just as GM gave up and officially shut down the EV-1 program.
     
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  16. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    #16 McRat, Dec 17, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2016
    How much was the 2003 Roadster? Who made the Lithium batteries for them? Cost per kWh?

    OK, that was facetious.

    The first Teslas were built 9 years after the last EV1. Li batteries were over 10 times more expensive in 1999 than 2008.

    Trivia - at one point 40% of all GMC truck sales were electric. The fact we use gasoline for cars and diesel for trucks was not a sure thing 100 years ago.

    Something your grandchildren will hear is that GM made an affordable EV that was profitable in 2000, then the (pick one or more) Republicans, Democrats, Oil Companies, Car Companies, Bureaucracy, Investment Bankers, Bicycle Companies, Bus Companies destroyed the program. They will be very vague as to the economics of the situation since it won't actually be feasible.
     
  17. GOTMEEV

    GOTMEEV Member

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    Here's an interesting link on the "Timeline: History of the Electric Car" provided by "Now on PBS". What really caught my attention was the last paragraph which reads as follows:

    "Despite promising signs, the electric car will need to navigate a bumpy road before it can become a viable option for many drivers. Challenges to mass adoption include high sticker prices, limited battery life and travel range, and building charging stations and other infrastructure to support electric vehicles."

    Keep in mind that this was published during the week of October 30, 2009.
     
  18. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    We are still at a point where only about 1% of Americans have ridden in an electric passenger car.
     
  19. EinSV

    EinSV Active Member

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    Tesla built its first prototype in 2004 -- less than a year after GM's EV-1 program was officially shut down -- and the Roadster was revealed to the public in 2006.

    If GM, a large, experienced manufacturer, had taken on a project of developing a high-end, long range EV in 2003 it easily could have.
     
  20. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    That did not work out so well for Toyota (a similar sized company as GM in 2003). Only 328 cars were sold. Most came back from leases and were crushed.
     

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