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CO2 Impact of Lithium Cell Manufacturing?

Discussion in 'Battery Discussion' started by ToddRLockwood, Aug 24, 2013.

  1. ToddRLockwood

    ToddRLockwood Active Member

    Sep 11, 2012
    Burlington, Vermont
    #1 ToddRLockwood, Aug 24, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2013
    Does anyone have hard data on the CO2 impact of manufacturing the lithium cells used in the Model S?

    I presume that it's inconsequential, but it would be nice to have some reliable numbers to refute claims made by anti-EV articles.
  2. Krugerrand

    Krugerrand Well-Known Member

    Jul 13, 2012
    Does anyone have the hard data on the CO2 impact of manufacturing an ICE engine?
  3. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

    Mar 8, 2012
    Including the automatic transmission.
  4. tigerade

    tigerade Member

    May 14, 2013
    This is a great question and I would like to know too.

    I imagine the best point of contact would be Panasonic, as they are the supplier for Tesla's lithium cells.

    I looked on their website and found a contact for Sustainability information, and it appears to be a Japanese phone number. I wouldn't know what to ask anyway. If anyone is feeling adventurous and knows how to call this, here it is:

    Contact | Sustainability | About Panasonic | Panasonic Global
  5. Grendal

    Grendal SpaceX Moderator

    Jan 31, 2012
    Santa Fe, New Mexico
    It's sad that WE have to justify cells and electricity while THEY can make BS assumptions with little to no real data to back their position. This same argument has been percolating for a while but I've noticed it has been pushed to the front just recently.

    My current argument against it is to point out the complexity of the ICE. You have hundreds (if not thousands) of unique parts that must all be made individually. Whereas an electric motor is very simple. My instincts (hardly scientific) tell me that between an ICE and the Model S it probably comes to a push over manufacturing. That includes the battery pack. I can't imagine that it takes an enormous amount of energy to create a battery over a part in a water pump. With batteries you are making hundreds of thousands of a single mass manufactured part. Fuel is an easy win for the electric car with coal being the worst choice for energy amongst the many choices available.
  6. evme

    evme Member

    Jul 5, 2013
    It is hard going to be hard to say how much it goes by average because there are so may variables. Typically though an EV would offset a gasoline vehicle at around 60-70k miles. But in the Tesla Model S there might be some advantages such as the battery cells being made in japan instead of typical china. And use of an AC induction motor.

    Here is an interesting study:
    View attachment RD11_124801_5+-+LowCVP+-+Life+Cycle+CO2+Measure+-+Final+Report.pdf

    But there are other things to consider. Specifically that car batteries have uses after the battery has reached end of life for automotive use. This would make analyzing it a bit more tricky.
  7. Zzzz...

    Zzzz... Member

    Aug 19, 2012
    East Asia/Canada
    At the moment the li-ion market is mostly shared by Japan and South Korea. With Korea being on top, in terms of cells produced or sales volume. But difference is not big. Both of them control ~30% of worldwide market with Korea gaining a lead recently. IIRC(sorry tried to Google but failed) China while growing fast still pretty much chasing the leaders of li-ion industry with something like 15%+ of worldwide production capacity.

    On the other hand, Japanese companies still control over 50% of all patents issued in the li-ion production field(as of 2012, IIRC). Moreover, I heard an opinion that it is possible that Tesla gets cells from Chinese Panasonic plant... So it is not granted that Model S cells are actually made in Japan, but I would agree that it is mostly likely the case. Anyhow there is more then one cells supplier for Model S.

    article talks about Korean and Japanese companies, but the one that actually is a source of mine info above seems to be real hard to find. Anyhow that one was the analysis of li-ion worldwide market posted in a top Japanese newspaper.

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