Coal Consumption & CO2 on a Downward Trend in China

[Ulmo]

The cool thing about NASA's Earth Science & Tech is the U.S. can remotely monitor carbon sources and sinks. So, perhaps fibbing won't help.
And of course the current admin is very enthusiastic about funding NASA and other U.S. agencies to keep tabs on the planet Earth... oh wait.

So, according to this, we're experiencing pollution blowing in from India, the Arab countries, and Africa, not China?

This horizon line over the ocean used to be clean when I was born here in 1971, and now it is brown, and everything comes from the West, which includes Asia and Africa:

 

[Ulmo]

Well China benefited hugely from supporting that stance, they got giant money from carbon offsets by shutting dirty plants and building new efficient plants. Basically EU paid China to become more competitive in steel. Nothing...nothing in China is simple...or upfront...or done with any integrity- it is about China. Great that they are building renewables but the most likely cause of the stance is nationalistic: China's oil production is decreasing at an alarming rate and they are quickly becoming reliant on Russia and OPEC. China does not want to be reliant on them and thus....they support renewables and that means that they want the rest of the world to buy the solar cells they need; they are building a huge increase in battery plants so they can have electric cars....so they won't have to import oil. With China it is all about China. That's basically the only thing you can count on so if you ascribe a position to ..."a belief in climate science" you are likely to be disappointed when the stance is no longer required some day in the future.

Bingo: this is why China wants us to be in the same boat and buy the same drop in price of clean energy. However, in this case, we need to be along for this ride. No, I don't trust China, but this is one issue where we both benefit from clean energy.

This is what I say we should do regarding China and clean energy products:

• Stop paying China for shutting down polluting factories. They should do this on their own.
  
• Keep buying solar panels for our use from everywhere that makes them and installing them. We should build more local USA solar panels in USA factories, but at least a little Chinese solar panels will kind of lull Chinese into complacency while we spool up our own USA solar panel and PV factories. Eventually we can just buy USA. Ditto on Electric Vehicles and batteries.
• While we keep buying a few more Chinese solar panels, they can continue to have economies of scale in those products and continue installing those panels themselves in their own country. By now or soon, China will have enough momentum and cost effectiveness in that manufacturing that they don't need us as a customer in order for them to continue replacing coal factories with solar panel farms.

We can go our separate ways from China, and still stop using dirty energy ourselves and let China stop using dirty energy too. We can make plenty of jobs doing this conversion. If we didn't spend money on that stupid oil war in Iraq, we could have upgraded to all clean energy in USA and never have looked back, such as with nuclear power and now solar power (and some wind too), and the current EV buildout would be even easier to absorb because we wouldn't be having to build out clean energy in parallel. But, now, we have even more stuff to do.

 

[deonb]

Well China benefited hugely from supporting that stance, they got giant money from carbon offsets by shutting dirty plants and building new efficient plants. Basically EU paid China to become more competitive in steel. Nothing...nothing in China is simple...or upfront...or done with any integrity- it is about China.

At least China can be relied on to act in their own self-interest.

Over here we want to artificially create demand for coal even though natural gas is cheaper and cleaner to produce... because, you know, Live free, or lobby!

China doesn't seem to me like they'll cut off their nose to spite their face like this.

 

[Sparky]

....
Here's my example: this ocean horizon used to be clean when I was born in 1971, but now pollution blows in from the West and makes it brown. The only thing West of us is China, across the Pacific Ocean, so this pollution is likely coming from China. But looking at the above world map, I see that band of particulate is more South than China, and may be coming from much further West than I knew, likely India, Arab countries and Africa. We need to stop coal production and use worldwide....

Nice pic; and I mostly agree, but with less finger pointing.
That low brown haze off the coast was present in the early 70's when I was a young grommet bobbing on my surfboard with other Jeff Spicoli models at Steamer's Lane (near your photo?). Naturally, with the accumulated wisdom of our few years, we assumed it came from the power plant at Moss Landing; never connecting the idea that the near constant on-shore breeze was just the wrong damn direction for haze over the water! It was an oil burning plant back then (NG, now I hope?) and very visible and so very easy to assign all local air quality problems to. It was common sense.

Later, I learned there's "westerlies", pretty strong winds that blow from East Asia and carry a fair amount of desert dust; right around this time of year, IIRC. Some studies using isotope filtering have connected a portion of the dust with coal burning in China. About 30% of the particulates I think. So, even when the Chinese stop burning significant coal (which I agree will be a great day ), I think your still gonna have disappointing photos of the horizon during certain seasons. UV filter.

 

[nativewolf]

Bingo: this is why China wants us to be in the same boat and buy the same drop in price of clean energy. However, in this case, we need to be along for this ride. No, I don't trust China, but this is one issue where we both benefit from clean energy.

This is what I say we should do regarding China and clean energy products:

• Stop paying China for shutting down polluting factories. They should do this on their own.
  
• Keep buying solar panels for our use from everywhere that makes them and installing them. We should build more local USA solar panels in USA factories, but at least a little Chinese solar panels will kind of lull Chinese into complacency while we spool up our own USA solar panel and PV factories. Eventually we can just buy USA. Ditto on Electric Vehicles and batteries.
• While we keep buying a few more Chinese solar panels, they can continue to have economies of scale in those products and continue installing those panels themselves in their own country. By now or soon, China will have enough momentum and cost effectiveness in that manufacturing that they don't need us as a customer in order for them to continue replacing coal factories with solar panel farms.

We can go our separate ways from China, and still stop using dirty energy ourselves and let China stop using dirty energy too. We can make plenty of jobs doing this conversion. If we didn't spend money on that stupid oil war in Iraq, we could have upgraded to all clean energy in USA and never have looked back, such as with nuclear power and now solar power (and some wind too), and the current EV buildout would be even easier to absorb because we wouldn't be having to build out clean energy in parallel. But, now, we have even more stuff to do.

Yep, you nailed it. Eyes wide open but the US should do as you suggest because it is good for the US, incidentally that's good for the world.

 

[nativewolf]

At least China can be relied on to act in their own self-interest.

Over here we want to artificially create demand for coal even though natural gas is cheaper and cleaner to produce... because, you know, Live free, or lobby!

China doesn't seem to me like they'll cut off their nose to spite their face like this.

China is the KING of cutting off their nose to spite their face. However they would prefer to cut yours off. Just look at one child policy, look at tibet, look at cambodia, look at the three gorges damn, but most importantly today...look at North Korea.

 

[mspohr]

Adani Group: China Construction Bank won't grant loan, PR firm says

Adani Group: China Construction Bank won't grant loan, PR firm says

Australia's new coal mine is in trouble. They're running out of funding sources