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Coal plants

Discussion in 'Energy, Environment, and Policy' started by vfx, Jan 21, 2008.

  1. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Coal supplies 40, 48, or 52 pecent of our country's energy. Don't know which number is real.

    Does anyone know how many are "clean" or "dirty"?

    And how about those Chinese Coal plants where they are building "a new one every day". Will they employ the latest in clean tech?
     
  2. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Apparently it depends on what grade of coal you have if it can be dirty or not-so-dirty (I hate to say "clean" here).

    Also, when they talk about coal pollution the discussion includes both toxic/noxious pollutants as well as CO2 (which may contribute to global warming). So when you talk about a so called "clean" plant you have to consider what emissions are being cleaned up and where they are going (if not into the air).

    See this...
    And this...
    And this...
    And this...
    And this...
    And this...
    And this...
     
  3. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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  4. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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  5. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    #5 vfx, Feb 21, 2009
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2009
    Coal Lotta shakin going on

     
  6. AntronX

    AntronX Member

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    According to data from Department Of Energy, between 1990 and 2007 national coal energy supply share went from 52.5% down to 48.5%. Total national electricity generation has been going up 2.2% per year, while national generation from coal has been growing 1.6% per year. If I extrapolate that data, then coal will be at 47.9% in 2009. But recent exponential growth of renewable energy generation will make that number slightly less.
     
  7. AntronX

    AntronX Member

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    Coal national electricity generation share per year:

    1990 52.47%
    1991 51.75%
    1992 52.57%
    1993 52.86%
    1994 52.06%
    1995 50.97%
    1996 52.12%
    1997 52.83%
    1998 51.75%
    1999 50.91%
    2000 51.72%
    2001 50.95%
    2002 50.10%
    2003 50.83%
    2004 49.82%
    2005 49.63%
    2006 48.97%
    2007 48.51%
    2008 48.23%
    2009 47.94%


    The last two are extrapolated by me.
     
  8. PeterW

    PeterW Member

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    Hi, would anyone be able to tell me what the increase of 1.6% of coal generation is as a quantity?
    Also how much new renewable energy was produced in the last year?

    How long til the new renewable energy production per year matches the
    2.2% pa growth in total eletricity production? Is it 2,5 or 25yrs away?

    I would consider that to be a major milestone (no more new coal plants) :)
     
  9. Palpatine

    Palpatine Banned

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    #9 Palpatine, Feb 22, 2009
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2009
    An interesting statistic to consider is what types of new power projects are coming online each year. I have seen media reports that in the past few years Wind energy projects account for about 1/3 of new capacity being brought online each year.

    U.S. has a whopping 25,170 megawatts (MW) of installed wind-turbine capacity, enough to electrify 6 million homes. Now under construction is 4,451 MW of new capacity, a 17.7% increase. This has declined because many projects were rushed to completion at the end of 2008 because of expiring tax credits for wind. Those tax credits were extended recently.

    (Wind projects by state)
    AWEA - Projects

    For example, in 2008, the U.S. wind-electric industry broke all previous records by installing 8,300 megawatts (MW) of new generating capacity, enough to supply nearly 2 million homes. This represents an enormous increase for one year alone; it raised the total U.S. wind power generating capacity by 32 percent, creating nearly $17 billion of investment.

    The amount that the U.S. industry brought online in the 4th quarter of 2008 alone - 4,112 MW - exceeded annual additions for every previous year except 2007.

    With all of that data in mind, I am optimistic that Wind energy will ultimately (in 15 to 20 yeras) provide 20% to 30% of our electric grid. It will be difficult for wind to provide a larger share than that because of the issues of wind reliability not being stable enough to balance the demands of the grid.

    I am also investing long term in a few solar power technologies. From the data I have read, it appears that solar energy could provide about 10% to 20% of our total grid electricity. But it is tiny now. The 30% tax credits are now in place for 8 years. So it really is starting to make sense to install a solar system on your house. The great thing about solar is that solar panels typically provide their maximum energy during time periods of maximum demand. So they are meeting our energy demand during the most expensive peak period of the day.

    So if wind can provide 20% to 30% and solar can provide 10% to 20%. That leaves a huge gap to be filled. Frankly I think we have to serious consider nuclear for baseload energy. France gets almost 80% of their grid from nuclear energy. We need to consider a national goal of 50%. We currently obtain about 20% of our grid from nuclear (103 nuclear reactors).

    In my opinion, our grid would look something like this:
    Wind 25%
    Solar 15%
    Nuclear 50%
    Hydro 10%

    And a bunch of EVs and PHEVs using the grid at night to recharge.
     
  10. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Thank you AntronX and James I hope Solar to get double that number.
     
  11. graham

    graham Active Member

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    Personally, I would like more geothermal in my dream grid list. It (like your Nuclear and Hydro) can serve as bulk power where Wind and (PV) Solar cannot. I would also love to add an energy storage solution to the grid so that Wind and PV Solar are more useful. As well as look more into Concentrated Solar Thermal over PV Solar where possible.
     
  12. domenick

    domenick Nerd

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    I second the geothermal. Raser has it going on in that department. I hate the idea of more nuclear than we already have and if it were phased out yesterday, it wouldn't be soon enough. Not even big on hydro unless it's from existing infrastructure. I think plug-in auto, mixed with fast charge station storage would go a long way to reducing the need for more capacity since a lot of generated powered never gets used. Efficiency gains could also go some way to reducing demand, especially in the realm of lighting.
     
  13. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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  14. graham

    graham Active Member

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    "Clean Coal harnesses the awesome power of the word: 'Clean!'"
    :biggrin:
     
  15. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    #15 TEG, Feb 26, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016
     
  16. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    #17 TEG, Apr 4, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016
     
  17. SByer

    SByer '08 #383

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    Coal and death always seem to be intertwined.

    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-wva-mine6-2010apr06,0,124334.story

    Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk (which can't seem to paste links correctly)
     

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