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Coast-to-coast offer for Elon Musk from MIT

Discussion in 'Autonomous Vehicles' started by Lex_MIT, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. Lex_MIT

    Lex_MIT Member

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    The tweet offer: Lex Fridman on Twitter

    The tweet text:
    [email protected] I heard you're back into some cross-country self-driving fun. We at MIT are planning to do it from Boston to LA, fully autonomously. We'd prefer a red Model 3 as the platform... How about our Deep Blue code drives it to LA. Your AlphaZero code drives it back to NYC.

    Stay tuned...
     
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  2. MIT_S60

    MIT_S60 Member

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    This will be exciting!
     
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  3. daktari

    daktari Member

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    Do you plan to use the same suite of sensors as a stock Model 3 or a different approach?
     
  4. Lex_MIT

    Lex_MIT Member

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    Yes, similar suite (radar, ultrasonic, camera), and same if given full access.
     
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  5. RubberToe

    RubberToe Supporting the greater good

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  6. mitchellh3

    mitchellh3 Member

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    Interesting! Given this, if you're open to sharing, what's your current viewpoint on the capabilities of the AP2 hardware suite?

    More specifically, beyond as broadly as "FSD", what do you think is and is not possible with it? Do you think all EAP features are possible? etc. Thanks!
     
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  7. croman

    croman Active Member

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    Are you the Lex Fridman? If so, I love your YouTube lectures. Thank you.

    Secondly, what do you think of Tesla using a modified GoogLeNet for image recognition from its two current cameras (main and narrow) for stereo vision?

    Thirdly, do you have any ideas as to whether you'll be using NNs for vehicle control or just vision?

    Fourth, how well developed is your driving policy? Do you really believe you can handle a cross-country trip that includes urban/suburban areas (for charging)?
     
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  8. Lex_MIT

    Lex_MIT Member

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    1. Yes, Lex Fridman here. Thanks for the kinds words on the lectures.
    2. I can't (or shouldn't) comment on the current Tesla approach, because I both know too much and too little. All I can say is that they have an amazing team. I love seeing good engineering and aggressive innovation (of course, always with safety being the top priority).
    3. We're using an ensemble approach, so both neural networks for end-to-end steering and for perception-only + controllers + planning. The latter is more reliable, the former is more interesting for research. We're researchers foremost, so want to create the tech of the future as much as create tech that's reliable enough to put on the road today.
    4. Good question. I am someone who believes that driving is incredibly difficult and we humans take for granted how difficult it is. Officially our trip will be L2, so the driver is always monitoring / in-control. But we will publish all video and data and see how close to 100% we get. The goal is to be open and honest in exploring the role of AI in making a safer and more enjoyable driving experience.
     
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  9. croman

    croman Active Member

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    1. The honor is ours for having your presence on this forum.

    2. I understand. Tesla does have an amazing team and I'm hoping we owners start seeing a bit more than a crappy EyeQ3 emulation. It seems that changes are afoot. Proof of that is the fact that my windshield wipers have a mind of their own!

    3. That is interesting (all I can say, sorry, I'm far from an expert). I wish you the best of luck as you push this field forward. Future saved lives are literally hanging in the balance for driverless vehicles. You, and Tesla, and the rest of the field could sharply reduce one of the leading causes of injury and death in the world (though as you are well aware, some places, like India will be a far more difficult challenge).

    4. It seems the simpler, or more innate, the harder it is for AI to emulate. Though I did see that backflipping robot do pretty well recently. And Data was my favorite TNG character (Sorry LaVar!).

    All I can say is good luck and get your permits in a row (if needed, who knows what your route is). The unfortunate truth is that Congress has not yet passed unified the laws regarding driverless vehicles and some states, like California did with Uber, despite your official L2, might construe the demo to potentially fall under their self driver laws/regulations. So until this wild west of legal uncertainty is homogenized it is going to be a bumpy ride, even for researchers (which is insane given the massive public benefit at stake). I am trying to get my congresspeople and local officials to move but I'm not naive in that the process will take a long time.

    Federally, the SELF DRIVE Act passed the House but has been buried in the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation in the Senate for a long time:

    Actions - H.R.3388 - 115th Congress (2017-2018): SELF DRIVE Act

    Apparently they've been too busy shutting down the government repeatedly and running up $1T deficits to do their jobs.

    Maybe that will get sorted out before Tesla is ready for their cross-country demo (heh).

    Good luck and if you crush Tesla convince Elon to license your code so they can get a jumpstart on saving lives. Thanks.
     
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  10. Kuro68k

    Kuro68k Member

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    Interesting but it still sounds like the best anyone can hope for is L2 on highways.

    People who already bought FSD are in for a long wait. Is FSD as promised by Tesla when possible with the current sensors?
     
  11. Electroman

    Electroman Active Member

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    Untitled.png
     
  12. Dr. J

    Dr. J Member

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  13. Lex_MIT

    Lex_MIT Member

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    If you bought FSD, you've done an important thing on many levels for the advancement of safety. It sends a signal to Tesla and to engineers such as myself that you care and are willing to put your money behind the idea that artificial intelligence can help make driving safer and more enjoyable. Elon's approach to innovation is often: step off the edge of the cliff and figure out how to fly on the way down. I am also a proponent and practitioner of this approach, while always putting a huge priority on safety and well-being of human beings.
     
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  14. Dr. J

    Dr. J Member

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    Other than yourself, of course, unless you're packing a parachute. :D Seriously, I admire what you and Elon are doing for the rest of us.
     
  15. Bladerskb

    Bladerskb Like how many times do i have to be right?

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    #15 Bladerskb, Feb 24, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018

    I'm sorry but i 100% disagree. Anyone who bought FSD are gullible and naive. Every year people lose billions off obvious scams. This is no different. Elon's approach to innovation is to hype stuff up and not deliver for 3+ years, hereby living rent free in people's minds like yours and then once they finally deliver 5 years later or more. they already lived rent free in people's minds, the media, who shower them with accolades and call them the best while they delivered squat the entire 5 year timeline.

    You can't take back the thousands of articles proclaiming that tesla cars are level 5 self driving.


    A prime example of AP2 launch. Hundreds of articles were written proclaiming Tesla as the best SDC company and there are laymen people i run into every day who actually think tesla are actual self driving cars and the fatal accident is the reason we shouldn't trust sdc.

    There are still many journalist and people who still believe it till this day.

    This happens when you have your CEO blatantly lying and making up garbage like below and hyping up nonexistent product and simple minded ppl lapping it up.


    December 2015: "We're going to end up with complete autonomy, and I think we will have complete autonomy in approximately two years." -
    Elon Musk Says Tesla Vehicles Will Drive Themselves in Two Years

    January 2016: "In ~2 years, summon should work anywhere connected by land & not blocked by borders, eg you're in LA and the car is in NY" -
    Elon Musk on Twitter

    June 2016: ""I really consider autonomous driving a solved problem," he said. "I think we are probably less than two years away." -
    Two years until self-driving cars are on the road – is Elon Musk right?

    A guy of your caliber and influence promoting such rubbish such as a guy proclaiming his cars will be level 5 in 2 years since 2015 is an insult to the educational and scientific community
     
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  16. croman

    croman Active Member

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    No good deed goes unpunished on the internet.
     
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  17. DKPowers

    DKPowers Member

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    I'm getting sick and tired of your toxic regurgitation on this matter on every thread. It seems that you don't think anyone is worthy of a polite and half decently worded counter argument, not even an MIT research scientist. You just yell stuff like "rubbish!" and "scam!". If you think Tesla is a scam, file it to the proper authorities and shut the hell up. If you think you in particular are getting scammed, report a crime with the police and sue Tesla and then shut the hell up. Or maybe just sell your Tesla (if you even have one) and let others play and have fun in the sandbox of the scammed and the shut the hell up.

    I've never ignored someone on a forum before but there's a first for everything.
     
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  18. BinaryField

    BinaryField Member

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    You're rolling down a dangerous path by arguing this. While I find @Bladerskb's post to be unnecessarily inflammatory, the fact of the matter is that there is a strong business case to be made against Tesla on how they handled EAP and FSD. I view your post as saying that one is not allowed to express dissatisfaction to someone with a big enough reputation. And I'll point out that @Lex_MIT's reputation is in a technical domain, not a business / consumer one (though they do have some relation in this case). Your call to suppress this type of opinion is extremely distasteful.

    --------------

    Being a bit more diplomatic here, I fall on the side of @Bladerskb's post. @Lex_MIT's comment, although forward-looking and poetic, is very insensitive to those who actually bought in to EAP / FSD and have to deal with the lack of real progress. These options were not marketed as an investment for far-off future technology - not really. They were trumpeted as trivial development, deliverable in three months maybe, six months definitely. Look at where we are now compared to what was promised. The company is stuck perpetually kicking the can down the road. Elon himself used the three month / six month line again in the recent investor call. This doesn't look good.
     
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  19. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    Steve Wozniak, Apple Inc co-founder, inventor, electronics engineer, programmer... should have lots of caliber too but if he could fall for it, what about people who have no background in technology?

    He said he bought his Model S after hearing Elon Musk saying that with the new hardware in 2016, you could summon your car across the country and he said "Oh, I had to have that,"
     
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  20. Lex_MIT

    Lex_MIT Member

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    Actually, I agree with @Bladerskb and @BinaryField. I just tend to prefer to focus discussion on the positive aspects (the successes) of innovation, while quietly studying and learning from the negative (the mistakes). I don't know if Elon's public words on Autopilot and AI in general is the right strategy. I see pros and cons. One positive aspect is it creates a mission for the engineers. Those deadlines are very real to the Autopilot team. It's inspiring, like the Apollo 11 mission to the moon was inspiring. The cons are well articulated above.

    On this particular topic, I would've spoken differently (in public) than Elon. But I hope one day I'll have the chance to have the kind of impact Elon has, and make as few mistakes along the way.
     
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