Coasting Device

[TheNorfolk]

Hello all,
I had this idea last millennium, wouldn't it be great if there was a device that would tell the driver of a vehicle when they could coast using no fuel or power and still get to their next waypoint, e.g. traffic lights, junction, intersection, roundabout, slip road or to and down an incline where it would maintain your speed etc etc.

So I now have a patent for this type of device and then went to various people to try and offer it under licence or to buy outright, but I haven't had much luck.

The concept is proved as someone is using it and infringing on my patent.

https://portals.webfleet.com/s/article/Coasting-advice?language=en_GB

All of which is hard to do anything about when you are just a normal person without £$millions to develop the device yourself or defend your patent.

With electric cars I believe coasting is more beneficial than regenerative braking, in petrol or diesel cars using no fuel or less fuel is better too.

In an electric car I think we could say any mile coasted is another mile that could be driven, and when you do drive like this in an urban setting it could be a 50% or more saving, on primitive tests in the UK I could slowly accelerate for about half of a street and easily coast the rest, so you could potentially go twice as far on the same charge.

Also, vehicles that have the highest MPG have achieved this by coasting as much as possible.

Cambridge car does 1,325 miles on a gallon of diesel | Business Weekly | Technology News | Business news | Cambridge and the East of England

Cambridge Design Partnership has contributed to a specialist vehicle capable of travelling 1,325 miles on a single gallon of diesel. "Business news from Cambridge and the East of England"

www.businessweekly.co.uk

For me, of course I would say this, but this device is perfectly placed and suited to a Tesla car, and any others too.

Any ideas on where to go with this or what to do with it?

Thanks.

 

[Cosmacelf]

It's useless. When going downhill, Tesla cars will either regen, coast, or use power depending on the speed you want to drive. The driver adjusts this via the pedal. Simply coasting, as you would in neutral, is almost never something you want to do. EVs have very little friction unlike an ICE car, so you would likely end up going too fast and then you'd want to put the car back into regen mode. And hills have turns, meaning you want to change the speed frequently, etc.

 

[TheNorfolk]

It's useless. When going downhill, Tesla cars will either regen, coast, or use power depending on the speed you want to drive. The driver adjusts this via the pedal. Simply coasting, as you would in neutral, is almost never something you want to do. EVs have very little friction unlike an ICE car, so you would likely end up going too fast and then you'd want to put the car back into regen mode. And hills have turns, meaning you want to change the speed frequently, etc.

Thanks for your input, it isn't just about hills though and as you can see from the telematics version they put coasting in gear rather than out of gear as in a ICE that then uses no fuel at all and say that it is dangerous to coast in neutral although I can't say I've ever been in any dangerous situation where the best option was to power through or out of it and it's quite simple to put it back in gear if needs be. There's obviously some 'mileage' in it as they have the device using my concept, some HGV's will coast automatically when the computer detects the vehicle can maintain speed without drive too, I think Audi's do something similar, my idea is just utilising satellite navigation to better calculate and notify of those opportunities.

 

[jmaddr]

I think you would marginal gains (if at all) in an electric car with this type of technology.

- For hills where coasting would increase speed, regen is certainly the best options.
- For dead flat to slightly negative grade where you could coast for miles, perhaps this "could" be better than maintaining a specific speed but you can still control this with your foot or even the cruise. If you watch the Green/Black energy bar...when you are dead in the middle you are essentially coasting (neither creating energy or generating it). If you set the cruise and the "slight" downgrade allows the car to maintain the car speed without *any* energy used, that's exactly what the EV would do...coast (no generation and no consumption). Then when and if the car slows down, it would consume more energy to keep the speed, or if the car starts to speed up, apply regen to slow it down (which is better than coasting)
- For coasting to a stop light/sign vs using regen to slow to the stop light/sign, there are so many factors such as current speed, distance, current traffic, and just basic timing. I just release the gas enough to start regen to the deceleration rate I either need to come to a complete stop or keep a safe distance from the car in the front.

It's like the hyper-milers trying to get the extra 2%...likely not worth the effort.

 

[XLR82XS]

My Taycan has coasting and has 3 recuperation modes selectable via steering wheel button.

 

[alexgr]

Nikola has achieved perfect efficiency with their truck coasting. I think you need to talk to them.

 

[rrolsbe]

FWIW, I make the following comment on a youtube video regarding coasting/regen two years ago.

On rolling hills an option to select a smarter cruise control mode could be a real winner. For example if you set your cruise control to 60MPH, allow the car maintain 55 miles an hour if it detects it is going uphill then on the downhill side allow it to coast (in neutral) up to 65 or even 70MPH (you could get a ticket) if downhill speed exceeds 65/70 speed engage drive mode and use regen. If downhill speed does not exceed 65/70 continue to coast until 55MPH is reached on the next hill then switch from neutral to drive mode to maintain 55 until the next downhill road section.. The parameters of 5 below going uphill and 10 above going downhill could/should be selectable parameters. Basically have the cruise be smart enough to switch automagically in/out of neutral/drive and use regen when necessary to keep the downhill speed safe. All of this could be done by the driver but would not be very relaxing way to drive. Having this cruise control option should extend range and not add much, if any, travel time to the trip.

 

[Brando]

Thanks for your input, it isn't just about hills though and as you can see from the telematics version they put coasting in gear rather than out of gear as in a ICE that then uses no fuel at all and say that it is dangerous to coast in neutral although I can't say I've ever been in any dangerous situation where the best option was to power through or out of it and it's quite simple to put it back in gear if needs be. There's obviously some 'mileage' in it as they have the device using my concept, some HGV's will coast automatically when the computer detects the vehicle can maintain speed without drive too, I think Audi's do something similar, my idea is just utilising satellite navigation to better calculate and notify of those opportunities.

1950s 2 cycle Saabs called this free wheeling. I don't think they even thought to get a patent. Seems cruise control does similar.

 

[wws]

The GM EV1 had a 'Coast' button on the side of the shift handle.

 

[mrwug]

My BMW in Eco mode regularly decouples the drivetrain when coasting. The engine speed drops to idle while I'm driving downhill with my foot off the gas.

 

[TheNorfolk]

The GM EV1 had a 'Coast' button on the side of the shift handle.

I think we've all been able to coast one way or another, it's just knowing when to, and something to tell you of all possible opportunities would help with that.

 

[TheNorfolk]

My BMW in Eco mode regularly decouples the drivetrain when coasting. The engine speed drops to idle while I'm driving downhill with my foot off the gas.

The other people using my concept without my permission they state to only coast in gear, which isn't really coasting as such but I can see the benefits of that as the vehicle then uses no fuel and it helps to maintain a speed down a hill rather than get faster and faster, does your BMW gain speed in that type of situation?

 

[TIppy]

FWIW, I make the following comment on a youtube video regarding coasting/regen two years ago.

On rolling hills an option to select a smarter cruise control mode could be a real winner. For example if you set your cruise control to 60MPH, allow the car maintain 55 miles an hour if it detects it is going uphill then on the downhill side allow it to coast (in neutral) up to 65 or even 70MPH (you could get a ticket) if downhill speed exceeds 65/70 speed engage drive mode and use regen. If downhill speed does not exceed 65/70 continue to coast until 55MPH is reached on the next hill then switch from neutral to drive mode to maintain 55 until the next downhill road section.. The parameters of 5 below going uphill and 10 above going downhill could/should be selectable parameters. Basically have the cruise be smart enough to switch automagically in/out of neutral/drive and use regen when necessary to keep the downhill speed safe. All of this could be done by the driver but would not be very relaxing way to drive. Having this cruise control option should extend range and not add much, if any, travel time to the trip.

Because the drag on the car is not linear with speed, wind drag goes up with speed squared, it's better to maintain the average speed rather than be slower half the time and faster half the time.

Coasting is not free. The car is still dissipating its kinetic energy to the environment and slowing down. Ultimately that energy has to come from the battery. In fact it takes less energy to cover a given distance in a fixed time by driving at the average speed rather than coasting from a high speed down to zero over the same distance and time.

 

[TIppy]

This post has plots that compare the amount of energy consumed using coasting, regen and braking while descending a hill. Regen retains about twice as much energy as coasting at a higher speed does.

Tesla removes regenerative braking strength option

Are you saying EPA testing is done using settings not available for regular users without special knowledge? Yes. It was called Dyno Mode..... AKA: The Volkswagen diesel special.:eek::D:D

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[mrwug]

The other people using my concept without my permission they state to only coast in gear, which isn't really coasting as such but I can see the benefits of that as the vehicle then uses no fuel and it helps to maintain a speed down a hill rather than get faster and faster, does your BMW gain speed in that type of situation?

If the hill is steep enough, yes

 

[TheNorfolk]

This post has plots that compare the amount of energy consumed using coasting, regen and braking while descending a hill. Regen retains about twice as much energy as coasting at a higher speed does.

Tesla removes regenerative braking strength option

Are you saying EPA testing is done using settings not available for regular users without special knowledge? Yes. It was called Dyno Mode..... AKA: The Volkswagen diesel special.:eek::D:D

teslamotorsclub.com

It isn't just about hills, it's about any stretch of road, there are many times I am still accelerating where I could actually be using no power/fuel at all and still get to my next waypoint, I do this even though I know myself I don't need to use that power, but when your not constantly thinking of this concept and using it, it's so easy to just carry on driving as we all do whereas I could be using no fuel/power at all at those times, it could be the last mile of a section of road, 50% or more of a shorter urban road, the possibilities and opportunities are endless.

 

[TIppy]

It isn't just about hills, it's about any stretch of road, there are many times I am still accelerating where I could actually be using no power/fuel at all and still get to my next waypoint, I do this even though I know myself I don't need to use that power, but when your not constantly thinking of this concept and using it, it's so easy to just carry on driving as we all do whereas I could be using no fuel/power at all at those times, it could be the last mile of a section of road, 50% or more of a shorter urban road, the possibilities and opportunities are endless.

You're still using energy as you coast. It's just the kinetic energy stored in the mass of the car. If you coast, your speed will continue to drop so your average speed over that distance will be lower. You can always save energy by driving slower. But it takes less energy still if you drive at the average speed over that distance because of the relatively high power required to coast at the higher speeds when you first start to coast. Power is not linear with speed.