Cockpit Design? Finally found concept I was thinking about.

[Siciliano]

Wow, I can't believe so many people would prefer a HUD system over a digital display wrapped around the whole dash.

I personally would much rather have a completely customizable dash AND the center touchscreen. A HUD system, IMO, is actually more intrusive to your view...it reminds me of Google Glass, which is really cool, but I wouldn't want all that info floating in my face while I'm driving - no thanks! I'd rather have it right where it is now, in the dash.

The OP is right...all the major car companies are shifting to all digital dashes, not HUD. I strongly believe/predict that Tesla will go this route with the 3, only more over the top - with a completely customizable display that spans the entire width of the dash...only the info you want, when you want it.

 

[Siciliano]

Of course not, that's why you need both. One for interaction (center screen) and one for display and/or augmented reality to complement autopilot.
HUD plus screen means you don't need an instrument cluster.

Without augmented reality, HUDs are just gimmicks displaying info that could be in an instrument cluster. For augmented reality and to truly know what autopilot is doing you need the HUD especially when autopilot gets more advanced with decision making.

I don't need to know what autopilot is doing - the future of autopilot is just that... you let the car drive and do the decision making. Why would I want/need a HUD? The whole point of full autonomy is so you can focus on things OTHER than the driving...and that is where it makes more sense to have a fully digital dash to provide more "entertainment" value while the vehicles drive.

 

[Gilzo]

I don't need to know what autopilot is doing - the future of autopilot is just that... you let the car drive and do the decision making. Why would I want/need a HUD? The whole point of full autonomy is so you can focus on things OTHER than the driving...and that is where it makes more sense to have a fully digital dash to provide more "entertainment" value while the vehicles drive.

We're not there yet on the full antonomy thing. Incremental steps will get us there but not yet (at least not in the US). The tech may be here soon but not regulatory approval. Maybe a HUD is that first step, maybe not...who knows. If the 3 doesn't come with a center dash, it would seem tesla would definitely be "training/preparing " us for a future level 4/5 environment.

Elon has said full autonomy will be available in 2 years. That certainly doesn't mean it will be in use. If the 3 comes equipped with the capability of full autonomy, I don't think we'll have regulatory approval by then...I hope I'm wrong but I dont think it will happen. We can't even get approval to forgo side mirrors in favor of cameras without a year of arguments.

Tech will always be ahead of actual implementation...especially in the area of "look Ma, no hands". I can't imagine the bickering that will take place when the discussion of a self driving car comes up for approval. It represents a major shift in our way of life. That sort of impact on society and safety will demand long drawn out discussions that will last for who knows how long. I think Europe and/or Asia has a much better chance to see level 4/5 well before the US. I hate it because I want it as soon as possible but let's be realistic here...its taking years for some states to even get through 1 discussion on allowing tesla to sell cars directly to the public or not. I can't imagine how long it'll take to discuss allowing cars to drive themselves.

We'll get there...incremental steps first.

 

[Dan Detweiler]

As long as early adopters are smart and use the current technology as intended the long term statistics are going to show that autonomous driving is much safer and accurate than manual driving. Armed with those statistics, we can then start approaching federal agencies with undeniable evidence that this technology should be allowed and encouraged.

Dan

 

[SΞXY P100D]

I'm all for augmented reality, however it may not be practical for HUD on the windshield. The head scratcher IMO is how to overlay the screen elements so that they align perfectly with the outside environment and from the driver's perspective. If not properly aligned to one's eyes HUD would be a major distraction and defeats the purpose of true AR. (I imagine AR as something like viewing the world through a Terminator's POV.) Using it with a device like Google Glass or some very advanced contact lenses is the only practical way to implement this I would think.

 

[Siciliano]

I'm all for augmented reality, however it may not be practical for HUD on the windshield. The head scratcher IMO is how to overlay the screen elements so that they align perfectly with the outside environment and from the driver's perspective. If not properly aligned to one's eyes HUD would be a major distraction and defeats the purpose of true AR. (I imagine AR as something like viewing the world through a Terminator's POV.) Using it with a device like Google Glass or some very advanced contact lenses is the only practical way to implement this I would think.

Yes, exactly. I think that echoes the exact point here - by the time a true AR HUD system were implemented *properly*, we will no longer need it (full autonomy).

I understand it may not be 100% fully baked in 2 years, but we will be very close, and Tesla is a forward-thinking company... they're likely thinking ahead to full autonomy and are getting ready to implement a dash system that adds more entertainment value and useful info, rather than a visual driving aide of any sort since it will become more and more pointless as the car gets better and better at driving itself. Why spend all that money and R&D on a feature that will be rendered obsolete fairly soon after launch?

 

[Mark C]

Before I'll pay for a car that has a HUD instead of a dash display, I'll need to drive it in all weather conditions. I'm just old enough, and stuck in my ways enough that I want to see the instrument cluster with important information available at a glance. If a HUD augments the instrument cluster, I hope it can be turned on and off so I can use it when I want it. There may be times when it is too distracting.

 

[JeffK]

I don't need to know what autopilot is doing - the future of autopilot is just that... you let the car drive and do the decision making.

There's probably at minimum a decade ahead of humans not fully trusting the machines. A human should know what the autopilots plans are as soon as possible for a potential override.

The head scratcher IMO is how to overlay the screen elements so that they align perfectly with the outside environment and from the driver's perspective.

This problem has already been solved using eye tracking cameras and other hardware. Check out the porsche concept Porsche unveils its Tesla killer: Mission E has holographic dashboard which uses a digital display

 

[msanborn08]

My speculation based on the pictures I've looked at would be the dash pad is going to have a motor actuator that hinges slightly upward or forward (towards the windshield) while not driving in more advanced versions of autopilot mode that have yet to be released. When manually driving the car or using the AP (in it's current level of software) I think you will end up seeing a small ribbon style LCD screen maybe a 6-8inch strip exposed when the dash pad is in the elevated position.

My reasoning behind this is why else would the 15" main LCD be positioned in the center at not even a slight angle to the driver? I know it was said so that the driver and passenger get the same experience, but how else is the driver going to get the needed information? Also from a manufacturing standpoint, it requires no changes to the center stack in the right hand / left hand drive configurations. Also, the LCD strip under the dash pad could be moved (via software) right or left due to the same reason, again keeping the same underpinning hardware (net, less production $$ when shipping overseas).

I hope it's not a HUD as others think it will be. Don't forget that this is a product designed for the masses and asking people to switch not only from a comfortable ICE mindset, then adding complexity to the visual driving data display I think the market isn't ready for. Plus... I'd like to be able to see my speed and other information clearly during the day time..

 

[voip-ninja]

As long as early adopters are smart and use the current technology as intended the long term statistics are going to show that autonomous driving is much safer and accurate than manual driving. Armed with those statistics, we can then start approaching federal agencies with undeniable evidence that this technology should be allowed and encouraged.

Dan

Actually what is likely to happen is that federal agencies will be approached with the idea that manual driving should be discouraged and eventually outlawed.

 

[voip-ninja]

So I am on my second F30 chassis BMW 3 series. My previous leased car was a 328i that had the HUD and the current car is a 340i that has the navigation system but does not have the full tech package so no HUD.

The HUD, when it is working optimally is a god-send. I don't have to move my eyes from the road even a little bit and I have all of the most critical information such as the speed, navigation inputs, I can even change the radio or media selection track and see what is coming up projected on the windshield.

A buddy of mine has a C6 Corvette. I asked him what his #1 "must have" feature is on the car (as he was talking about ordering a newer model) and without hesitation he said it was the HUD... "nothing beats knowing my speed, especially in low speed areas, instantly and all the time".

Now HUD does have a lot of disadvantages too. The windshield has to be specially coated and is more expensive to replace. The HUD projector, in some lighting conditions, gets reflected onto the windshield and is distracting. The HUD doesn't work perfectly in 100% of lighting conditions, and of course many popular polarized sunglasses interfere with it.

However, for me personally, nothing could be worse than a single, large, center-mounted LCD display being the sole source of information in the cockpit.

I hope Tesla figures something else out, because if that's how it ships, I probably will be backing out.

 

[Garlan Garner]

HUD has been out for at least a decade. It is now being scrutinized by a whole different generation of car buyers.

Car companies are still dibbling and dabbling around with HUD and this second generation of car buyers have the same opinion of it that the previous generation had. I don't like it.

How many more generations are needed to conclude that customers are saying " its interesting - But I don't want to pay for it".

 

[Dan Detweiler]

HUD has been out for at least a decade. It is now being scrutinized by a whole different generation of car buyers.

Car companies are still dibbling and dabbling around with HUD and this second generation of car buyers have the same opinion of it that the previous generation had. I don't like it.

How many more generations are needed to conclude that customers are saying " its interesting - But I don't want to pay for it".

I get the fact that you don't like it...however that doesn't mean an entire generation doesn't.

For me, I absolutely hate looking down through the steering wheel for information. There is always some part of the display that is blocked. I would much rather have the info in my line of sight.

 

[JeffK]

Some first gen HUDs used CRTs as the light source... quality was obviously subpar.

The Future!!!

 

[deonb]

Audi isn't stupid. They know what sells.

Really?

 

[Garlan Garner]

I get the fact that you don't like it...however that doesn't mean an entire generation doesn't.

For me, I absolutely hate looking down through the steering wheel for information. There is always some part of the display that is blocked. I would much rather have the info in my line of sight.

Weather I like it or not is not important. My point is this. Car companies design what sells. They are designing HUD. Their lack of development means that this generation won't buy it.
I'm not speaking for generations. Lack of development is. period.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Really?

View attachment 178172

Come on.

Your chart only states whether sales are different than last year on a per company basis. Tesla sold more cars this year than last year. Good for them. Audi didn't sell as many cars as they did last year. What does that have to do with anything? They are all making billions even if fewer people are buying cars - across the board. If I sell 1 million cars this year and only sell 975K cars this year...I still sold 975K cars..... If Tesla sold 10 years last year and 30 cars this year....I would hate to be them even if some chart shows a 300% increase in sales. I would rather have sold 975K cars. So this chart means nothing.

Tesla and other car companies are doing the same thing concerning HUD. No development.

No matter what their sales figures are. No matter of who is outselling who. HUD does not sell.

 

[deonb]

No matter what their sales figures are. No matter of who is outselling who. HUD does not sell.

I'm not comparing sales figures between manufacturers, but rather 2014 vs. 2015 year-over-year figures within each manufacturer as a counter-argument against your "Audi knows what sells".

Obviously they don't.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I'm not comparing sales figures between manufacturers, but rather 2014 vs. 2015 year-over-year figures within each manufacturer as a counter-argument against your "Audi knows what sells".

Obviously they don't.

This year AUDI sold 45 Billion dollars worth of cars. Yes they do. Last year they sold 48 Billion dollars worth of cars. They know exactly what they are doing.

And they are doing it well.

Tesla was in the red last year and they will again this year....They are a new startup company.

Which company do you wish your bank account was like?

 

[jkk_]

However, for me personally, nothing could be worse than a single, large, center-mounted LCD display being the sole source of information in the cockpit.

Well said. Personally, don't have experience with HUDs but at least Tesla seems to be willing to bring their A-game with regards of these things so there is hope. But like you said, I'd rather have a HUD that works 80% of the time as opposed to nothing at all (not counting the center-mounted display).