Cold. Cold. Cold. Strange / Interesting screen reading.

[Garlan Garner]

I just saw the weather forecast for Chicago next week.

Wednesday the wind chill will be -46F.

My car will be outside all day - and I'm going to try and keep a close watch out for what its going to do.

Anywhoo...it was cold yesterday as the actual temp here reached down to -4F.

One thing I noticed yesterday ( while driving ) is that when I was stopped at intersections the car's indicator looked like it was still moving. See the indicator under the HOLD - it was moving and at times was even longer than that.
I wonder if that's the feature where the motors still spin to generate heat to warm up the battery.

I didn't hear or feel the motors still turning, but maybe they were.

 

[Garlan Garner]

2nd question.

Is there anyone out there gaining distance in the cold when charging with a 11V outlet?

I heard that 110V can't keep up with pre-heating the battery.

 

[CyberShy]

Please note: windchill is meaningless to the car, its battery etc. it will never get colder than the actual temperature.

To an inanimate object, wind chill only represents how much more quickly it may lose heat.

 

[jsrawa]

2nd question.

Is there anyone out there gaining distance in the cold when charging with a 11V outlet?

I heard that 110V can't keep up with pre-heating the battery.

I use a standard outlet at home because we are likely moving in the near future and I don’t want to throw money into installation only to move. At any rate I also unfortunately need to park outside right now and in the thirties and for the most part twenties it will still add range just fine, granted it’s slow as always. We had temps in the single digits recently and I barely got any range, sometimes it would show 0mph charge.

 

[docherf]

I just saw the weather forecast for Chicago next week.

Wednesday the wind chill will be -46F.

My car will be outside all day - and I'm going to try and keep a close watch out for what its going to do.

Anywhoo...it was cold yesterday as the actual temp here reached down to -4F.

One thing I noticed yesterday ( while driving ) is that when I was stopped at intersections the car's indicator looked like it was still moving. See the indicator under the HOLD - it was moving and at times was even longer than that.
I wonder if that's the feature where the motors still spin to generate heat to warm up the battery.

I didn't hear or feel the motors still turning, but maybe they were.

View attachment 371896

Not sure what was going on with your display.

The motor can't spin without driving the car -the transmission has one gear that is always engaged.

 

[silentsnow31802]

I have seen the energy bar do that same thing under extreme cold. I assumed its seeing the energy draw from whatever heaters may be running. I want to say ive also heard that the rear motor can power it self up and generate heat without actually spinning.

 

[eli_]

The bar just measures battery load and the cabin heater can draw up to 8-10 kilowatts, so it's enough to register on there.

 

[nvx1977]

It's just your cabin heater running. Next time you see that flickering of your bar, turn off your HVAC. It will instantly stop. But you will get colder

It's actually pretty interesting to see how the car turns off and on the heater and to what degree. It's not just always on full blast or always off. There's a nuanced controller fine tuning the heater's operation based on real time cabin temp measurement. Reminds me of the little adjusting thrusters on the SpaceX 1st stage rocket boosters when it's trying to orient itself to land.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Not sure what was going on with your display.

The motor can't spin without driving the car -the transmission has one gear that is always engaged.

Per the diagram below, when the batteries need to be warmed up instead of cooled down, you can see that coolant gets pumped to the management module and then into an oil-to-coolant heat exchanger in the drive unit to pick up heat, before being diverted away from the radiator via the integrated valve and sent directly through the chiller (which I assume is off in this case) to warm up the batteries.

Munro says Tesla actually “stalls” the drive motor to intentionally use its heat to warm up the batteries—a novel solution that forgoes the need for an electric resistance heater.

https://jalopnik.com/the-tesla-model-3s-superbottle-easter-egg-is-a-fascin-1830992728

 

[Big Earl]

2nd question.

Is there anyone out there gaining distance in the cold when charging with a 11V outlet?

I heard that 110V can't keep up with pre-heating the battery.

I plugged in on 120 volts on a recent trip to Michigan in single digit weather. The colder it gets, the less energy makes it into the battery, as the majority of the energy is used to keep the battery warm enough to charge. Charge rate will drop to less than 1% per hour in very cold temperatures.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I'm leaving out for a Chicago Tesla meetup this morning. Paint Protection Film (Xpel) and Ceramic Coating Info Session

I'm going to ask the other Tesla folks if they are seeing the same thing.

TMC is fantastic for getting this kind of information.


Hey!!!! - If anyone wants me to do any experimenting this week in Chicago with my P3D+ just let me know because its going to be Cold. Cold. Cold.

 

[CCIE]

As others have said, the energy bar will “twitch” when stopped to show that the motor(s) are using energy to generate heat for the battery. The M3 doesn’t have a dedicated battery heater, so this is how they do it.

 

[mswlogo]

Please note: windchill is meaningless to the car, its battery etc. it will never get colder than the actual temperature.

To an inanimate object, wind chill only represents how much more quickly it may lose heat.

True. But windchill can cool the battery to that real temperature quicker. Which is why we feel colder as well because the warmth around our body is swept away quicker.

 

[2012MS85]

Last night in Iowa the air temp was -4F; wind chill about -30F. Our MR 3 had not been driven in 9 days while we were on vacation and it sat in my attached but not heated garage; about 30F in there all week. So here are a few interesting factoids I noted about how much juice the 3 used (also compared against her sister, P85, sleeping all week adjacent in the same garage). I charged both to about 85-90% (both around 225 miles of range) on Jan 16 and never woke either Tesla via the app to minimize battery use. Upon our return after 9 days of non-use, the 3 only had 143 miles left; the S had 169 miles. Ergo, the cold weather vampire drain during deep sleep was about 9 miles (~2 kWh) per day for the 3, and about 6 miles (also ~2 kWh, given the higher energy usage of the P85) per day for the S. I thought this was interesting data for all who might be planning to leave their Tesla while out of town in the winter. Yes, one could simply leave your Tesla plugged in and trickle charge with a 120v connection, but I wanted to gather data cause I’m a numbers nerd

Okay, here’s the shocking kWh usage data... We took the 3 out last night in the brutal cold for a retirement party at 7pm. Drove 20 miles round trip, so I expected to consume 40 miles of range (with half those kWh keeping the batteries and two humans warm, seat heaters and max cabin heat...cause my wife was spoiled this past week with 80F sunny weather in Cancun and she is not loving this crazy cold). With minimal pre-heating for just a few minutes, we left home with 140 miles of range, and I expected to arrive home at 11pm with about 100 miles left. Nope, only 20 miles left! So when the 3 sat in the freezing cold (-4F), and I then pre-heated the cabin to 80F for about 45 minutes (as we were thinking about leaving the party for home), this used an unbelievable 80 miles of range! That’s almost not believable, but I saw it with my own eyes and was purposefully tracking the data. That amounts to almost 20 kWh of consumption for battery heating over 4 hours and cabin/seat heating for less than one hour. Blew my mind that it could be so high!

I plugged in at 11pm and by 8am I had 55 miles, a gain of 35 miles, so my typical 4 miles per hour using Level 1 (120v) connector. Guess my 3 named Dory truly is a princess who really hates leaving the house (garage) during these extreme Midwest winters Stay warm!

 

[mc2002tii]

I then pre-heated the cabin to 80F for about 45 minutes, this used an unbelievable 80 miles of range!

I'm curious why you preheated for such a long time and to that high of a temperature. I find it usually only takes 5-10 minutes of preheating to warm up the car. Maybe 80F was related to your Cancun trip (although I would have found it unbearable dressed in winter clothes!)?

 

[svp6]

So when the 3 sat in the freezing cold (-4F), and I then pre-heated the cabin to 80F for about 45 minutes, this used an unbelievable 80 miles of range! That’s almost not believable, but I saw it with my own eyes and was purposefully tracking the data. That amounts to almost 20 kWh of consumption for battery heating over 4 hours and cabin/seat heating for less than one hour. Blew my mind that it could be so high!

I plugged in at 11pm and by 8am I had 55 miles, a gain of 35 miles, so my typical 4 miles per hour using Level 1 (120v) connector. Guess my 3 named Dory truly is a princess who really hates leaving the house (garage) during these extreme Midwest winters Stay warm!

Thank you for sharing. Did you have the snowflake on the dash? Probably you hit the worst case scenario. I went yesterday evening to the gym - it was -4F when I left and -6F when I cam back. I preheated the battery on a NEMA 14-50 for about 5 minutes before leaving, drove for 5 miles, left the car out for 1.5 hours, pre-heat fpr 5 minutes before getting out of the gym. Total driven distance 10 miles, dash said average 580 Wh/mi, total 30 rated miles used. So this is very high, but much lower than what you experienced. I suspect your battery was deeply cold-soaked.

 

[Big Earl]

Preheating to 80F for 45 minutes can use 3 or 4 kWh, maybe more if it's extremely cold out.

 

[svp6]

Great initiative = good time to see worst case scenario usage. We have a max -16 min -22F coming next week, I will definitely try it. Meanwhile here is a cross post about my usage with P3D- on 19 inch wheels with winter tires (sport Tesla with Pirelli sottozero). This was fairly cold.

I went yesterday evening to the gym - it was -4F when I left and -6F when I came back. I preheated the battery on a NEMA 14-50 for about 5 minutes before leaving, drove for 5 miles, left the car out for 1.5 hours, pre-heat for 5 minutes before getting out of the gym. Total driven distance 10 miles, dash said average 580 Wh/mi, total 30 rated miles used.

 

[ricohman]

Please note: windchill is meaningless to the car, its battery etc. it will never get colder than the actual temperature.

To an inanimate object, wind chill only represents how much more quickly it may lose heat.

True.
But I like to know the wind chill as it makes a difference on how we park our vehicles and if we should plug them in.
It just sucks the heat out of everything. Including the house.
Many of those that live in the north also keep an ice scraper handy for the inside of the windshield. There is a certain temp for every vehicle that the heater can no longer keep the windows inside clear. And your breath freezes them over.
MY last gas truck was a V10 F350. And we went ice fishing on Tobin lake with a wind chill in the -50s temp was -44. Scraping and driving.

 

[dhanson865]

Not sure what was going on with your display.

The motor can't spin without driving the car -the transmission has one gear that is always engaged.

The last time I checked all Teslas have Drive, Neutral, and Reverse.

The motor(s) can absolutely spin if the gear is in Neutral.

As to the topic of this thread as a whole I'm not saying they were in the OPs case. I'm just saying your statement was incorrect from a technical standpoint.