Cold Weather Range Reduction - This much?

[Wingsy]

I was in Greensboro NC the other evening and needed to get to my sister's house (39 mi) and then home (38 mi). I had 70 miles showing as my range and the temp outside was upper 30's so I stopped at a supercharger before leaving GSO and charged to 120 miles. I figured that should get me the 77 miles needed to complete the trip.

Got to my sister's house with 70 miles showing as range. When I left her house the consumption graph showed I will have 3% charge remaining when I get home. After just a few miles the graph showed "--" as charge remaining at destination. I figured that meant I wasn't going to make it. So I turned off climate control. Within a few minutes it was showing 3% again and by the time I was 5 miles from home it had climbed to 9%. When I got home it was at 8% and range was showing 19 miles. (And I was quite cold!) Both legs of the trip was roughly equal parts interstate and rural roads.

So, the first leg of the trip (39 mi) used 50 miles of range. The 2nd leg (38 mi) used 51 miles. Which is confusing, since the consumption graph clearly showed I was doing better with the heat off (2nd leg). Confusing or not, this was a lesson in how much I can expect to (not) get when it's cold. I'm going to use 75% of displayed range as the actual range I can expect to get when cold.

I'm planning a trip soon to Cherokee NC, passing through Asheville where I'll stop and charge to 100%. Cherokee is about 50 mi from Asheville and there are no chargers in Cherokee (to speak of). Curvy mountain roads all the way. I figure 50 miles to Cherokee, 50 miles driving around, then 50 miles back to Asheville. 150 miles. Think I'll make it? (M3 SR+)

 

[SouthSeas]

I was in Greensboro NC the other evening and needed to get to my sister's house (39 mi) and then home (38 mi). I had 70 miles showing as my range and the temp outside was upper 30's so I stopped at a supercharger before leaving GSO and charged to 120 miles. I figured that should get me the 77 miles needed to complete the trip.

Got to my sister's house with 70 miles showing as range. When I left her house the consumption graph showed I will have 3% charge remaining when I get home. After just a few miles the graph showed "--" as charge remaining at destination. I figured that meant I wasn't going to make it. So I turned off climate control. Within a few minutes it was showing 3% again and by the time I was 5 miles from home it had climbed to 9%. When I got home it was at 8% and range was showing 19 miles. (And I was quite cold!) Both legs of the trip was roughly equal parts interstate and rural roads.

So, the first leg of the trip (39 mi) used 50 miles of range. The 2nd leg (38 mi) used 51 miles. Which is confusing, since the consumption graph clearly showed I was doing better with the heat off (2nd leg). Confusing or not, this was a lesson in how much I can expect to (not) get when it's cold. I'm going to use 75% of displayed range as the actual range I can expect to get when cold.

I'm planning a trip soon to Cherokee NC, passing through Asheville where I'll stop and charge to 100%. Cherokee is about 50 mi from Asheville and there are no chargers in Cherokee (to speak of). Curvy mountain roads all the way. I figure 50 miles to Cherokee, 50 miles driving around, then 50 miles back to Asheville. 150 miles. Think I'll make it? (M3 SR+)

I would never recommend anyone bother to charge to 100%. That last 10% takes something like 20-30 minutes and is not as effective as the rest of the range because of the lower driving efficiency due to the loss of regen.

I know the problem you are facing. I deal with a similar trip on a regular basis. In the winter the local driving does mess you up. Is there no 120 volt outlet you can use? Plugging in overnight will actually make a big difference. Or if there is a level 2 charger leaving it plugged into that for even an hour should add 20 miles if you find your charge lower than you are comfortable with.

Looking at Plugshare I see the Cherokee Welcome Center has two J1772 chargers and an 8 kW Tesla destination charger. You could walk over to the Museum of the Cherokee Indian for an hour and get 30 miles added to your battery.

 

[webbah]

The cabin heater can use up 4-8kW of power. better to use the seat heaters if you can! People are more sensitive to this with EV’s, but you also lose range with ICE cars in winter. We just don’t care as it doesn’t take long to fill up a tank. I also recommend you do not charge to 100% if you can avoid it.

 

[Wingsy]

Looking at Plugshare I see the Cherokee Welcome Center has two J1772 chargers and an 8 kW Tesla destination charger. You could walk over to the Museum of the Cherokee Indian for an hour and get 30 miles added to your battery.

I haven't seen that before. Thanks. Last I checked all Cherokee had was 120v outlets for charging. I'm sure my wife can find a few stores right there where we can kill a couple hours. That is... if I can pull her away from the casino.

 

[lolder]

With the HVAC in auto, the AC AND heat can both be on down to low temperatures. Running the HVAC in manual with the AC off, recirc off, windshield vent only on, a temp setting of about 65 and low seat heat will yield the lowest energy consumption. In high humidity this may not prevent the inside of the windshield to fog so defrost may have to be used periodically. That turns the AC on again so when the defrost is finished you have to set up the manual settings again. Do this only on AP. The best idea is to allow for 50% range loss, charge more and run the HVAC in auto. The cost is a few pennies per mile. We are in the early years of a transportation revolution and the charger situation is steadily improving.

 

[ewoodrick]

Expect 30% drop for winter range. Your numbers seems to support that.

Don't forget that slowing down can do wonders

 

[cab]

Winter driving is also a little skewed in the early part of a trip. When you start out if everything is cold (cabin and battery) it takes more juice to get them both up to temp initially). Ideally your charging would be finished right before you leave and you are preconditioning the cabin too. I agree on the 110 charging when practical. It can counter vampire drain and add 30 or 40 miles overnight. My wife recently had to leverage this when she visited her nephew on a trip back home from her sister’s house. There really is no substitute for destination charging where you are staying! As a aside, in REALLY cold climates 110 won’t actually charge the car!

 

[VT_EE]

When using 120V in the winter, plug it in when the battery is warm (i.e. when you arrive). Waiting until the battery is cold soaked may result in no added miles due to battery warming losses.

 

[Tummy]

This is the efficiency we are getting from our Model 3 at various temperatures living in Atlanta over the last 20k miles.

 

[lolder]

How are you measuring efficiency? Wh/m would be better.

 

[Kevy Baby]

I also recommend you do not charge to 100% if you can avoid it.

At a SuperCharger or public charging station. Charging to 100% at home before departure is still fine.

Probably what you meant, but wanted to clarify.

 

[webbah]

At a SuperCharger or public charging station. Charging to 100% at home before departure is still fine.

Probably what you meant, but wanted to clarify.

For the maximum battery life its best to keep charges to 90% or less. I’ve only charged to 100% once since I took ownership. There are many many posts about this.

 

[Kevy Baby]

For the maximum battery life its best to keep charges to 90% or less. I’ve only charged to 100% once since I took ownership. There are many many posts about this.

Correct: don't do it on a daily basis. About to take a trip and concerned about mileage, then you can do it.

 

[webbah]

Correct: don't do it on a daily basis. About to take a trip and concerned about mileage, then you can do it.

Sure, but if you have Superchargers on the way it makes no sense at all. The better approach is to time the charging so you can use the SC’s between 20-50% and you will get the maximum charging speed and only need 10-15 minutes to make up the difference.

 

[Cellsaver]

I haven't seen that before. Thanks. Last I checked all Cherokee had was 120v outlets for charging. I'm sure my wife can find a few stores right there where we can kill a couple hours. That is... if I can pull her away from the casino.

FYI as of about 3 weeks ago the Tesla destination charger wasn't working. The guy at the visitor center said it hasn't worked in a long time.

 

[67King]

How are you measuring efficiency? Wh/m would be better.

Doesn't really matter. Peak efficiency is about 90%. Turn that into a 1, and scale down. I've seen similar performance in a similar climate, though I've not quantified it. A 22% increase in usage (or decrease in range) is what he is experiencing. If your Summer Wh/m is 295, then your winter will be about 380. That's pretty darn close to what I've seen (mine is a Performance).

 

[cypho]

How are you measuring efficiency? Wh/m would be better.

Here is mine. Teslafi shows Wh/mi right above the graph.

 

[Jeffrios]

Wow, I would expect the efficiency to be at its best around 60-70 degrees when the ambient temperature is cooler and puts a little less stress on the battery pack.

 

[BabyYeggie]

Looks ok to me. There's a lot of power used to heat up the cabin and higher speeds uses more power. I find that pre-conditioning at low temperatures increases efficiency by up to 20%.

 

[coleAK]

I was in Greensboro NC the other evening and needed to get to my sister's house (39 mi) and then home (38 mi). I had 70 miles showing as my range and the temp outside was upper 30's so I stopped at a supercharger before leaving GSO and charged to 120 miles. I figured that should get me the 77 miles needed to complete the trip.

Got to my sister's house with 70 miles showing as range. When I left her house the consumption graph showed I will have 3% charge remaining when I get home. After just a few miles the graph showed "--" as charge remaining at destination. I figured that meant I wasn't going to make it. So I turned off climate control. Within a few minutes it was showing 3% again and by the time I was 5 miles from home it had climbed to 9%. When I got home it was at 8% and range was showing 19 miles. (And I was quite cold!) Both legs of the trip was roughly equal parts interstate and rural roads.

So, the first leg of the trip (39 mi) used 50 miles of range. The 2nd leg (38 mi) used 51 miles. Which is confusing, since the consumption graph clearly showed I was doing better with the heat off (2nd leg). Confusing or not, this was a lesson in how much I can expect to (not) get when it's cold. I'm going to use 75% of displayed range as the actual range I can expect to get when cold.

I'm planning a trip soon to Cherokee NC, passing through Asheville where I'll stop and charge to 100%. Cherokee is about 50 mi from Asheville and there are no chargers in Cherokee (to speak of). Curvy mountain roads all the way. I figure 50 miles to Cherokee, 50 miles driving around, then 50 miles back to Asheville. 150 miles. Think I'll make it? (M3 SR+)

I’m in Alaska and lose 40-50% in the winter. Also up hill is double to triple. My commute is almost 1000 vertical feet down then back up. In the summer I typically see <100 Wh/mi to work and 500 Wh/mi home.

also as per the 110v in the cold. I don’t se no gain plugged into 110v until I’m <0F.