Cold weather testing?

[JeffK]

I'm not so sure. They already have hand built ones so there is no reason to make more of them that way when what they really need to do is get some actual production cars off of the actual line to test. I don't think it does them any good at this point to test what is essentially a custom vehicle that was hand-built for a specific purpose. Until they can get production cars, individual parts and components can be tested on their own or integrated into an S or and X.

On the other hand, I don't know anything about building cars so I could be completely wrong.

It would make zero sense to wait until a production line is already set up to test cars. Those kinds of issues should be found with cars hand built to specification. Otherwise it'd cost time and money to adjust the production line, especially if they found something major.

 

[e46jb]

OK, so there is speculative data then. I don't see Buick owners being very in-tune with vehicle flaws as the average age of a Buick owner is over 50 years old. I know that I take my car in frequently to have adjustments and issues fixed, especially when they are fit and finish issues, or even more importantly safety issues.

I am very critical on a variety of things and am not the normal consumer. I know many buyers will drive a new vehicle off the lot with squealing brakes and rattles in the dash and never look back, never address the concern....I would turn around and get those issues addressed, if it means 10 visits

 

[AudubonB]

There is cold weather testing, and there is Arctic testing.

Only one of those is significant.

I have had minor discussions with TM in the past regarding the suitability of their testing; both what they have been doing in Alaska and elsewhere. We differ in our opinions; only one of us is correct.

 

[AWDtsla]

There is cold weather testing, and there is Arctic testing.

Only one of those is significant.

I have had minor discussions with TM in the past regarding the suitability of their testing; both what they have been doing in Alaska and elsewhere. We differ in our opinions; only one of us is correct.

I suspect our disagreement with Tesla is mutual. There's a dozen cold weather improvements they could make via trivial changes in software, I just don't think Tesla is aware, and they have ear plugs in.

 

[Az_Rael]

All due respect, but I laugh at a Californian's idea what cold is.

Hey now! We have a ghost town in CA that has the most days below freezing per year outside of Alaska. (Maybe thats why no one lives there).

As I type this its currently -10 F in Bridgeport (not a ghost town). A few days ago it got down to -19 F. Sure, its not the -40F weather I used to get when I lived in Utah, but I'd call that cold.

 

[WileyTheMan]

Hey now! We have a ghost town in CA that has the most days below freezing per year outside of Alaska. (Maybe thats why no one lives there).

As I type this its currently -10 F in Bridgeport (not a ghost town). A few days ago it got down to -19 F. Sure, its not the -40F weather I used to get when I lived in Utah, but I'd call that cold.

Which is why the people from Alaska and the Northern regions laugh at us. I've experienced -50F when I visited relatives in Minnesota and it is certainly a different type of cold. But then again, garages are actually used to house cars up in those regions. Not so much in saner temperate climates like ours.

 

[Az_Rael]

But then again, garages are actually used to house cars up in those regions. Not so much in saner temperate climates like ours.

Surprisingly where I lived in Utah with the -40F winter temps, very few people housed their cars in garages. You did have to have an engine block heater to be able to operate your ICE though. We lived in a townhome and ran an extension cord from our unit across to the parking lot to plug in our car each night.

I think the one thing that is hard to replicate in CA is the long term driving on slushy/icy/salted roads. That isn't dependent on super low temperatures though (-40F is actually TOO cold to snow).

 

[AWDtsla]

I think the one thing that is hard to replicate in CA is the long term driving on slushy/icy/salted roads.

Also a reason why AP2 will never be certified to be fully self driving. Tesla would know this, if they had bothered to listen to us. Accidentally sneaking up on 90mph when you intended to go 55 because of the radar being obscured by road salt and cruise control is completely defeated = FAIL.

 

[WileyTheMan]

Also a reason why AP2 will never be certified to be fully self driving. Tesla would know this, if they had bothered to listen to us. Accidentally sneaking up on 90mph when you intended to go 55 because of the radar being obscured by road salt and cruise control is completely defeated = FAIL.

Never say never when software can be updated. It's all about improving the algorithms in the various scenarios the system will be in.

I just hope Tesla doesn't push out the tech faster than it should go.

 

[Jayc]

And I'd like to think that Tesla will have access to top resources so they wouldn't really be short of good advice. In any case, the shortest path to full autonomy IMO is testing and coverage. Billions of miles and scenarios covered with AP2.

 

[AWDtsla]

Never say never when software can be updated. It's all about improving the algorithms in the various scenarios the system will be in.

I just hope Tesla doesn't push out the tech faster than it should go.

You can't add wipers over software update, sorry. So I will say never.

 

[e46jb]

You can't add wipers over software update, sorry. So I will say never.

I agree, even with my non-Tesla and the Active Cruise Control, I have experienced many times this winter while travelling on the highway and not being able to use cruise. They could add an extra headlight washer nozzle or the old Volvo style headlight wipers to make it functional, but I doubt they would as the cold weather population would equal a fraction of total sales.

 

[AWDtsla]

I agree, even with my non-Tesla and the Active Cruise Control, I have experienced many times this winter while travelling on the highway and not being able to use cruise. They could add an extra headlight washer nozzle or the old Volvo style headlight wipers to make it functional, but I doubt they would as the cold weather population would equal a fraction of total sales.

Self full-filling prophecy.

 

[boiler81]

In any case, the shortest path to full autonomy IMO is testing and coverage. Billions of miles and scenarios covered with AP2.

Yes, and I've yet to see or hear of any Model 3's with any AP2 hardware installed. You can't tell how much ice, snow, and road grime will obscure AP2 camera installations on the M3, without testing them on one.

 

[AWDtsla]

Yes, and I've yet to see or hear of any Model 3's with any AP2 hardware installed. You can't tell how much ice, snow, and road grime will obscure AP2 camera installations on the M3, without testing them on one.

Judging from my rear view camera, about 5 minutes of driving the day after a snow storm or pre-emptive salting. Can't see a damn thing with it most of the winter, unless I've just washed the car.

 

[chillaban]

I feel like this whole "Californians don't know salt / snow / cold" is a myth. I grew up in Kentucky/Ohio/Michigan/MA, but this past year in NorCal I faced some of the most extreme winter conditions I've ever seen going to Tahoe during an active snowstorm. And quite honestly the Model S handled those wintery conditions about as well as my previous German and American cars.

Extreme conditions are available in Tesla's back yard, and I don't think that's a really a valid excuse / dismissive statement about Tesla's ability to engineer for wintery conditions that encompass 99% of what Americans face.

Now, yeah, if you live in the arctic cold, fine, we might not have good knowledge of what that's like.

 

[AWDtsla]

I feel like this whole "Californians don't know salt / snow / cold" is a myth. I grew up in Kentucky/Ohio/Michigan/MA, but this past year in NorCal I faced some of the most extreme winter conditions I've ever seen going to Tahoe during an active snowstorm. And quite honestly the Model S handled those wintery conditions about as well as my previous German and American cars.

I've gone through 2 winters in the Model S, and it is not a myth. Many things about using the car in cold and inclement weather are just dumb, BEFORE addressing hardware concerns, like not having a heat pump or poor insulation in the pack and in the body of the car. So the rest they could fix in software, if they cared, if they noticed, if they tried.

Extreme conditions are available in Tesla's back yard, and I don't think that's a really a valid excuse / dismissive statement about Tesla's ability to engineer for wintery conditions that encompass 99% of what Americans face.

Now, yeah, if you live in the arctic cold, fine, we might not have good knowledge of what that's like.

Give us a better excuse then, I haven't thought of one.

Watching Bjorn take the Kia Soul EV on a road trip and seeing many miles and how little consumption he was getting in the cold with a tiny little pack and a very boxy car was amazing.

 

[boiler81]

Judging from my rear view camera, about 5 minutes of driving the day after a snow storm or pre-emptive salting. Can't see a damn thing with it most of the winter, unless I've just washed the car.

I need to check, but I believe my wife's 2016 Mercedes C300 backup camera retracts after use to keep it out of the grime that accumulates quickly on the back end in winter. Of course that won't work for cameras that are part of AP2

 

[dsvick]

You can't add wipers over software update, sorry. So I will say never.

I agree, even with my non-Tesla and the Active Cruise Control, I have experienced many times this winter while travelling on the highway and not being able to use cruise. They could add an extra headlight washer nozzle or the old Volvo style headlight wipers to make it functional, but I doubt they would as the cold weather population would equal a fraction of total sales.

Just because full self drive won't work in all situations doesn't mean it won't be approved. If the software can successfully recognize that it can't do the job properly and turns control back over to the driver or pulls over and shut's itself down then I'd say that that's acceptable.

For all of the other cold weather driving complaints you have, I assume you've sent them to Tesla to give them the opportunity to correct them?

 

[e46jb]

Tesla needs to tap in to its client base, Denmark is the #1 cold weather test environment and there is a very large number of Tesla's in this region of the world