Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Cold weather

Erewegoagain

Member
Aug 29, 2020
19
4
Toddington
I drove up to Chester this week and coming back I've never seen the range drop as fast. It was cold, probably 2-3 degrees, but had about 270 odd miles showing at the outset, stopped briefly at Keele to add another 40 miles or so, but only left with 50 miles on arrival for what is a 150 mile journey. So, used 260ish miles of range to cover the 150 miles. That was all driven at legal speeds, no heated seats etc so just a little shocked.

I know the new model has a feature to improve this, but any hints and tips or just one to be aware of in the winter. I did know to expect a slight reduction in miles per kwh, but not quite this.
 

Erewegoagain

Member
Aug 29, 2020
19
4
Toddington
ok, thanks for the top tip. I was visiting a client so didn't have the opportunity during the day, but there is a destination charger nearby which I'll go and sit tat before I head back next time, definitely worth 10 minutes of my time before I set off if it helps that much
 

NorfolkMustard

Active Member
Apr 18, 2019
2,200
2,169
M3P w/FSD
The new/heat-pump model has different problems, check out some of Bjørn’s videos. The cabin heating is scavenged from the battery and can lead to loss of power if it gets too cold

 

ACarneiro

Active Member
Jun 20, 2019
1,312
1,035
Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK
The new/heat-pump model has different problems, check out some of Bjørn’s videos. The cabin heating is scavenged from the battery and can lead to loss of power if it gets too cold

Yes, that’s interesting.
The Octavalve allows heat to be scavenged either from the battery pack or from ambient air.
If the current functioning is being detrimental to battery performance, I suspect future software updates will change the management system a d improve things.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Big Earl

GRiLLA

Member
Jul 5, 2020
582
567
UK
Switch to %, you'll drive yourself nuts using using miles. When the car is showing you miles it's based on a standard range test that's carried out on the flat and at a warm temperature. Put your destination into the navigation and you'll get a far more realistic estimate of the battery remaining when you get there (and to come back).

While you are driving, take a look at the energy graph in trip view, you can then easily see if you are deviating from the original estimate, I'm typically under the estimate.

When planning routes before you leave use A Better Routeplanner, also highly accurate, can do multiple stops and suggest the optimum places to charge, Tesla or not.
 

Adopado

Active Member
Aug 19, 2019
3,644
2,755
Scotland
I drove up to Chester this week and coming back I've never seen the range drop as fast. It was cold, probably 2-3 degrees, but had about 270 odd miles showing at the outset, stopped briefly at Keele to add another 40 miles or so, but only left with 50 miles on arrival for what is a 150 mile journey. So, used 260ish miles of range to cover the 150 miles. That was all driven at legal speeds, no heated seats etc so just a little shocked.

Certainly feels like a big drop... but, the first point to make is don't depend on the mileage reading when you start out. The truth is you never had 270 miles range in the first place ... you just had a certain amount of battery power available .. that's all the car knows. This is why many of us set the battery indicator to percentage rather than a range in miles that shifts around in an unhelpful way.

A more accurate guide will be to put your destination in the nav and then launch the energy graph and select "Trip". That will then give you a prediction based on the particulars of the journey you are about to make. It will also constantly update in real time depending on how your journey actually progresses and gives you a good indication if you are liable to be close to the prediction. Even if you don't enter a destination you will see that the energy graph still allows you to make predictions based on the last 5,10 or 30 miles of actual driving.

(BTW heated seats, if you were to use them, are not a big draw on power ... in fact some people choose to run with heated seats and a lower cabin temp and claim a small range advantage.)
 

VanillaAir_UK

Supporting Member
Jun 17, 2019
7,806
5,255
Surrey, UK
(BTW heated seats, if you were to use them, are not a big draw on power ... in fact some people choose to run with heated seats and a lower cabin temp and claim a small range advantage.)

This ^

I was going to ask what temp cabin was set at at that and fan has a huge impact. Seat heaters are very good at providing localised heat to offset cooler space heating/cabin temperatures.

We haven't driven any meaningful trips in cold this year, but similar conditions last year, even with no preheating, we were getting just under 300Wh/mile at normal steady legal motorway speeds in the dark on our LR. That equates to approx 240 mile range instead of quoted 310 miles for LR ~ 77% efficiency. Heater likely to be 18/19C, A/C, Fan 1/2 and heated seats.

Your efficiency looks to be around 58% which is significantly down on what should be achievable in similar conditions. So something else going on other than temperature to cause this.
 

NewbieT

Active Member
Aug 16, 2019
1,043
642
North West
Come on guys. Telling people to turn off cabin heat and use heated seats in a premium car isn’t really the answer even if it is included in the manual. (With the heat pump Bjorn does also say they’re is very little gain/loss).

The problem is most new EV drivers think they have a car with a range of 250 miles (SR+) and in reality it’s more like 200. Most cars when they give you a ‘range’ to empty on the dash, it’s pretty accurate.

Changing to % doesn’t magically increase the range or change someone’s perspective if they think they can drive 250 miles in an SR+. It doesn’t help you plan a journey or charging if you have no idea how far 100% will get you. If it’s not the number on the display it’s a lot of trial (& error?!). I know it’s the WLPT/EPA thing, but surely it could just show the real world range (like most other cars).

The OP makes a fair point. I’ll pause for the barrage.

As for tips: Tesla’s are very manageable when you get used to them.
Pre-heat on mains. Time charging to end just before you drive. Keep an eye on speed. Recalibrate your range expectation. Plan with ABRP.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zakalwe

Erewegoagain

Member
Aug 29, 2020
19
4
Toddington
Thanks for the feedback, comments, hints and tips, all appreciated and informative

Mine is a long range and was charged up to 90% before leaving. I had the climate on auto, at 21C. Thanks to 50 miles of average speed through the roadworks on the M6 and M1 plenty of 50/60/70 mph, with the odd tickle above those numbers but nothing crazy that would hurt range.

Will definitely play around with seats and preheating in future to see what difference they bring
 
  • Like
Reactions: exlatccatsa

Jason71

Active Member
May 8, 2019
2,714
2,479
Shropshire
Come on guys. Telling people to turn off cabin heat and use heated seats in a premium car isn’t really the answer even if it is included in the manual. (With the heat pump Bjorn does also say they’re is very little gain/loss).
I think that thinking is out of date. We are all used to the heat in a car being free or at least prepaid and freely available and we treat it as such but when that's not the case why not take sensible measures? I wouldn't buy 4 bedroom single glazed house and then heat all the bedrooms if I lived alone so why would I do it in my car if I am paying for the energy both in terms of cost and range.
If nothing else its bad for the planet
I did a lot of long single journeys last winter and I put the heat on manual turned off the vents in the back and turned down the passenger heat to 18. turned mine up to 21 put the fan on 1-2 and turned on the heated seats
Can't say I was at all uncomfortable and saved a load of energy.
I also generally wore a jumper where as before I might have just worn a thin shirt.
I didn't need the extra range but it just seemed like common sense. I have the heating in my house set to be comfortable in winter based on wearing a sensible amount of clothing why would I not do the same in my car?
 

GRiLLA

Member
Jul 5, 2020
582
567
UK
The problem is most new EV drivers think they have a car with a range of 250 miles (SR+) and in reality it’s more like 200. Most cars when they give you a ‘range’ to empty on the dash, it’s pretty accurate.

Not at all, ICE cars are wildly inaccurate, my previous BMW X1 would do about 2/3 of the miles shown on the dash in winter, and never achieved anything even remotely close to the WLTP advertised MPG. It would get a bit further in the summer.

Changing to % doesn’t magically increase the range or change someone’s perspective if they think they can drive 250 miles in an SR+. It doesn’t help you plan a journey or charging if you have no idea how far 100% will get you. If it’s not the number on the display it’s a lot of trial (& error?!). I know it’s the WLPT/EPA thing, but surely it could just show the real world range (like most other cars).

No, but it encourages you to use the navigation or ABRP to determine range rather than the state of the battery, which is then much more accurate. The units of battery charge are arbitrary at many levels, stating it in miles using an idealised figure makes you think it will actually do that range, which is will not. Percentage does not imply a mileage, but is a useful guage "ABRP says I'll need 60% to get to Brum and back, I'll charge to 80% tonight".
 
  • Like
Reactions: exlatccatsa

GeorgeSymonds

Active Member
Mar 16, 2018
1,082
666
UK
Changing to % doesn't change anything other than makes you less aware of the efficiency or not of the car. I know lots recommend it, but for me its easier to compare miles lost to miles driven or monitor the shrinking gap between miles left in the battery and journey left it helps determine whether you need stop to charge. The energy graph in the car does this too but its one more thing on the screens I don't want.

And using heated seats and not heating the cabin.. come on, we should be able to drive in comfort and not have to wear warmer clothes.

The times I've found where the consumption was much higher than expected (after allowing for temperature) have been when driving into a head wind. The cold does hurt but after the first 20 miles the efficiency usually improves although not to summer levels of efficiency. A betterroute planner, the in car prediction etc do not cater for head winds, and if you drive into a 20 mph headwind you're more or less making that 70mph feel like 90mph to the car, and we know that's very bad for efficiency.
 

VanillaAir_UK

Supporting Member
Jun 17, 2019
7,806
5,255
Surrey, UK
A betterroute planner, the in car prediction etc do not cater for head winds, and if you drive into a 20 mph headwind you're more or less making that 70mph feel like 90mph to the car, and we know that's very bad for efficiency.

Headwind, road conditions and if you have premium, real time updates

upload_2021-1-19_10-15-32.png
 
  • Informative
Reactions: DrJFoster

Durzel

Active Member
Jul 17, 2019
3,114
2,115
Bath, UK
Having the charge level show as miles just leads people to obsess over degradation to an excessive degree.

At the end of the day, say your battery has "lost" 20 miles range since new. How reliable is that? Has the car been driven from 100% to ~0% to work out the actual travelled distance achievable? Moreover, what can you do about it? If you speak to Tesla and say you think you've lost 20 miles from EPA/WLTP/whatever and you're concerned, they're not going to do anything about it.

The battery has a 8 year warranty, when there's actually genuinely something to worry about and/or its patently obvious the battery has degraded, then you can deal with the problem.

I also don't like range expressed as miles because it gives a false sense of security. The range may drop faster than the travelled miles, and equally it might not, depending on conditions and how much "stuff" you're using in the car, how you're driving it, etc. I would rather see a percentage tick down and know that at a certain percentage I need to consider where I'm going to charge it back up again.
 

pgkevet

Active Member
Jul 1, 2019
1,264
1,107
mid wales
Having the charge level show as miles just leads people to obsess over degradation to an excessive degree.

At the end of the day, say your battery has "lost" 20 miles range since new. How reliable is that? Has the car been driven from 100% to ~0% to work out the actual travelled distance achievable? Moreover, what can you do about it? If you speak to Tesla and say you think you've lost 20 miles from EPA/WLTP/whatever and you're concerned, they're not going to do anything about it.

The battery has a 8 year warranty, when there's actually genuinely something to worry about and/or its patently obvious the battery has degraded, then you can deal with the problem.

I also don't like range expressed as miles because it gives a false sense of security. The range may drop faster than the travelled miles, and equally it might not, depending on conditions and how much "stuff" you're using in the car, how you're driving it, etc. I would rather see a percentage tick down and know that at a certain percentage I need to consider where I'm going to charge it back up again.

It's all a personal thing . I prefer mine set to miles and perfectly capable of doing the mental sums as to how that relates to percentage.. but then I prefer my S's binnacle to display current 30mile average usage and I know that my 100KW pack does just over 300miles range so 30miles/10KW is close enough for an instant appreciation of 3/4, 1/2 tank left etc or if it's winter and I'm currently burning 480 or 500w/m then I know if it shows 150miles that it's really only 100 miles at current usage (or half a tank however you like to think of it).
 
  • Like
Reactions: john19951

Durzel

Active Member
Jul 17, 2019
3,114
2,115
Bath, UK
Fair enough. There's nothing wrong with doing it your way I don't think, it's more that I wonder what people who have barely had their cars for a few months are thinking when they see their max range is less than the EPA/WLTP or whatever, and are assuming the worst. It's not healthy! :)
 

pgkevet

Active Member
Jul 1, 2019
1,264
1,107
mid wales
Fair enough. There's nothing wrong with doing it your way I don't think, it's more that I wonder what people who have barely had their cars for a few months are thinking when they see their max range is less than the EPA/WLTP or whatever, and are assuming the worst. It's not healthy! :)

Folk also tend to live in the happy dream land that a battery warranty gets them a new battery if capacity drops below 70?% 80?%. It doesn't - it just gets them a secondhand battery within warranty specs to limp them past the 8 years...
 

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top