Colorado HOA laws and using a 120 volt plug in parking garage

[doubleohwhat]

Unfortunately, I've dealt with HOAs in the past that are essentially just one cranky person with a bunch of time on their hands. It's always been dumb stuff that they start a fight over. 99% of the time it's just best to let it go because it'll end up being a stressful and expensive fight over something silly. I feel like this is one of those times. Just install your own charger and be done with it.

I've only had one issue that I thought was worth fighting and it was clear that as long as the HOA president was this crazy old guy, nothing was going to get resolved. So basically I made it a very expensive fight for the HOA. I had my lawyer send them so many stupid notices, requests and demands that the HOA burned through their cash reserves due to legal fees on their end. Yes, it was expensive for me and yes, I was slightly paying for the HOA fees via my dues. However, I was only one of 96 units. So once the HOA was out of cash, they had to do an assessment to cover the ongoing legal fight. I sent a letter to the other 95 condo owners explaining what was going on, why it started and that the stupid stubbornness of the current HOA president was going to continue costing everyone money. At the next HOA meeting the president was removed, the issue was resolved and I donated some money to the HOA to restore the reserve fund.

What was all this over? It was a beach condo that I flew down to twice a month and I wanted to keep a car there for when I visited. We were allowed two parking spaces and I was only using one. However, the HOA president insisted this was "illegally storing a vehicle" and had the car towed. I even offered to park the car in the boat storage lot but that was shot down as well.

 

[brkaus]

Wow, this whole thing is just wrong. This isn't some random business or neighbor, where it would be theft of electricity. These are the facilities and electricity that HE IS PAYING FOR with his HOA dues, so they are resources paid for and provided for him and the other residents.

Sorry, while I hate HOAs and would like to agree... this is a cost to the HOA and one individual shouldn't necessarily expect to benefit above/beyond others. IF I'm a neighbor and the stereotypical old nosey one... of course I'm going to complain about something that might cause my dues to go up.

• Can I tap into the HOA sprinkler main water line in front of my house to water my yard?
• Should the yard keepers that do the community area be obligated to mow my yard?
• Can I run an extension cord from that garage outlet to run the space heater in my unit? It would *only* use the same amount of electricity as the car would consume.

People tend to view it as *just electricity* because the 120v power outlet is ubiquitous. The fact is that it would be an unfair benefit to one member of the HOA.

I grabbed this number off the internet, so it may be junk, I apologize in advance. But at $0.04 per mile I could recoup my entire $60 HOA fees I pay by charging a Tesla for 50 miles of driving per day. 1500 miles per month.

I have to admit, I've looked at any possible charging I can get away from my house to help justify (aka reduce cost for) my future EV purchase, so I'm probably as bad as the next.

 

[Rocky_H]

Sorry, while I hate HOAs and would like to agree... this is a cost to the HOA and one individual shouldn't necessarily expect to benefit above/beyond others.

But think how that logic plays out. The very INSTANT anyone uses ANYTHING, they are getting use out of it above and beyond others. So by extension of your logic, none of the residents can EVER get any use out of the community resources that they are paying for ever.
The point of this has to be reasonable use. You gave an example of someone charging 50 miles a day every day. That's not what this is. He said this is his ski condo, so it's not his permanent daily residence. I don't know where each person would think reasonable use is, but your perspective of no one ever being able to use anything doesn't seem right.

 

[brkaus]

But think how that logic plays out. The very INSTANT anyone uses ANYTHING, they are getting use out of it above and beyond others. So by extension of your logic, none of the residents can EVER get any use out of the community resources that they are paying for ever.
The point of this has to be reasonable use. You gave an example of someone charging 50 miles a day every day. That's not what this is. He said this is his ski condo, so it's not his permanent daily residence. I don't know where each person would think reasonable use is, but your perspective of no one ever being able to use anything doesn't seem right.

Slippery slope is what HOAs (or businesses) are concerned about. My first advice was to suggest OP offers to pay (perhaps excessively) for the use.

It would take away any concern of setting some precedent. It would give the board something to tell others that asked.

 

[DarkMatter]

Slippery slope is a logical fallacy for a reason. Just because something can happen doesn't mean it will. You need more support than that.

 

[SageBrush]

Idiot of a president, similar to my CEO who shot down my request for L1 charging when I work due to the "expense." I presume neither can do arithmetic or they would not tie their panties in a knot over what works out to a 0.000342857 (~ 3.43/10,000) raise.

No worries though: I'll just factor in a much bigger battery in my decision how much to increase my compensation this year due to COLA.

 

[brkaus]

So by logical extension it would be ok for someone to run an extension cord from that very same garage plug to their unit and run a space heater for just a few days a month because the plug exists, it's a shared resource, and it would only cost <$10-20 per month.

 

[Lloyd]

Do the residents use Block Heaters in the winter time? Usage would be comparable with 120 V charging.

 

[SageBrush]

How many charging days are involved ?

If 30 days and 18 hours per day, then
777 kWh annual consumption
Since there are 60 residents, it would work out to ~ $1.25 surcharge a year for each resident.

OP should make the rounds with a petition, a pad of $5 bills, and a promise to pay the same four years from now.
Do owners of ski condos really care about a dollar a year ?!?

 

[Canuck]

You need to read the condo association's by-laws to determine if there's any clause that prohibits you from using that plug, or common property in general. I doubt there is. If there is no prohibition then as an owner of common property, with a pro-rata share, there is nothing to prevent you from using that plug on an infrequent basis, as you state. Of course, you can't hoard it. It's there for the use of all owners. You should be nice and professional but matter-of-fact in your dealings. Using examples is best, such as asking them if you are allowed to plug in a vacuum cleaner to vacuum your car with that outlet? If not, where is that prohibition? If so, why can't you plug in your car to charge? If safety is a concern, then they need to tell you why since there's nothing unsafe about charging your car. If others need the amps, then of course you need to tell them they can unplug your car during that use, which is unlikely to happen. If cost is a concern, then it's pay for all or none but they can't exercise their discretion unfairly. The cost of charging your car infrequently is nominal. If they still refuse without pointing you to a specific clause, ask them if they have a legal opinion on the issue, and if not, why not. Put the important points in writing and ask for written replies.

Many condo associations become tyrannical arbitrators without proper authority and you shouldn't back down to them. Many are composed of people with nothing better to do than something like this, which, let's call it like it is: stupidity and ignorance to stop you from using that plug. This is where being a lawyer helps. Years ago I owned a condo and I was told there were certain things I couldn't do. I told them I could do them politely but matter-of-fact. They responded by fining my account. I sued and brought an immediate summary trial application. I settled only after they removed the fines, paid my costs, and entered in an agreement not to fine my account in the future without a prior order from the court. These were the terms I demanded failing which I would see them in court. It never saw a court room. Their lawyer knew the Strata (which we call them here) was being unreasonable and he would lose.

 

[St Charles]

. Unfortunately, that is not permissible. The outlets in the common areas are a community expense shared among all owners.

The owner of the outlet just asked you not to use it. This is pretty cut and dry. You do not own the outlet, the association does. You aren't paying any extra for the electricity you are stealing and it is adding expense to the association budget that they are not interested in dealing with. This would be equivalent to an ICE owner siphoning gas from an HOA owned vehicle because "I pay HOA does".

You are stealing electricity. Don't be a dick.

The President also brought up that Colorado law permits residents in an HOA to try to install an EV charger

The HOA just gave you the solution. Install your own outlet.

 

[auger]

Unfortunately, I've dealt with HOAs in the past that are essentially just one cranky person with a bunch of time on their hands. It's always been dumb stuff that they start a fight over. 99% of the time it's just best to let it go because it'll end up being a stressful and expensive fight over something silly. I feel like this is one of those times. Just install your own charger and be done with it.

I've only had one issue that I thought was worth fighting and it was clear that as long as the HOA president was this crazy old guy, nothing was going to get resolved. So basically I made it a very expensive fight for the HOA. I had my lawyer send them so many stupid notices, requests and demands that the HOA burned through their cash reserves due to legal fees on their end. Yes, it was expensive for me and yes, I was slightly paying for the HOA fees via my dues. However, I was only one of 96 units. So once the HOA was out of cash, they had to do an assessment to cover the ongoing legal fight. I sent a letter to the other 95 condo owners explaining what was going on, why it started and that the stupid stubbornness of the current HOA president was going to continue costing everyone money. At the next HOA meeting the president was removed, the issue was resolved and I donated some money to the HOA to restore the reserve fund.

What was all this over? It was a beach condo that I flew down to twice a month and I wanted to keep a car there for when I visited. We were allowed two parking spaces and I was only using one. However, the HOA president insisted this was "illegally storing a vehicle" and had the car towed. I even offered to park the car in the boat storage lot but that was shot down as well.

As a bar friend lawyer told me once, "You never want to piss off someone so badly that they make you their hobby." He was talking about me.

Your story sounds familiar. Unfortunately, my large Assn could absorb almost any cost plus I had no desire to hurt the HOA. But I did devote a year and a half of time and effort to getting rid of this psychopath.

Not only is he no longer the Board President, he doesn't even live in the building anymore. Sunshine is the best disinfectant.

I ousted the VP and building manager, too. Boy, am I glad that is over, but it was worth it in the end. The new President is perfect. He was one of my website subscribers.

 

[Rocky_H]

The owner of the outlet just asked you not to use it. This is pretty cut and dry. You do not own the outlet, the association does. You aren't paying any extra for the electricity you are stealing and it is adding expense to the association budget that they are not interested in dealing with. This would be equivalent to an ICE owner siphoning gas from an HOA owned vehicle because "I pay HOA does".

You are stealing electricity. Don't be a dick.

And you shouldn't shower at the gym you pay a membership for because you are stealing their water!

 

[KJD]

Unfortunately, I've dealt with HOAs in the past that are essentially just one cranky person with a bunch of time on their hands. It's always been dumb stuff that they start a fight over. 99% of the time it's just best to let it go because it'll end up being a stressful and expensive fight over something silly. I feel like this is one of those times. Just install your own charger and be done with it.

Agree with this 100%. You should pay for the electricity that goes into your car. They offered a reasonable solution, take it.

 

[jtg]

Agree with this 100%. You should pay for the electricity that goes into your car. They offered a reasonable solution, take it.

We are going through a similar process. The condo where we are moving to has under-building assigned parking spots. Current management was at first resistant but tentatively agreed to our request to install a 14-50 outlet at our expense. Luckily there is a pillar next to our parking spot where it is convenient to install the outlet. We do not own an ICE vehicle so we had to make this outlet installation a condition of sale. I think that our personal meetings with the decision makers and our explanation that it's "just an outlet" helped. They all though that one needed a "Charging Station" for an electric car.

Jim

 

[SageBrush]

We are going through a similar process. The condo where we are moving to has under-building assigned parking spots. Current management was at first resistant but tentatively agreed to our request to install a 14-50 outlet at our expense. Luckily there is a pillar next to our parking spot where it is convenient to install the outlet. We do not own an ICE vehicle so we had to make this outlet installation a condition of sale. I think that our personal meetings with the decision makers and our explanation that it's "just an outlet" helped. They all though that one needed a "Charging Station" for an electric car.

Jim

How is the electricity metered ?

 

[SageBrush]

The owner of the outlet just asked you not to use it.

Nonsense. The president owns ~ 1/60th of the outlet, just like OP.

Ideologues like yourself need to take a deep breath and look around. OP will cost each member around $1 a year if he does not reimburse. Even a teeny weenie should have better things to do than argue over two pennies a week.

 

[Max*]

Nonsense. The president owns ~ 1/60th of the outlet, just like OP.

Ideologues like yourself need to take a deep breath and look around. OP will cost each member around $1 a year if he does not reimburse. Even a teeny weenie should have better things to do than argue over two pennies a week.

Where do you draw the line?

$1/year?
$10/year?
$100/year?
$1,000/year?
$10,000/year?
etc.

That's the problem. It adds up. $1 here, $1 there, $1 elsewhere. It's also the principle. No one else should be forced to pay for the OP to charge (not that the OP is asking anyone to).

As for the shower in the gym example: It's there for you to use. Now if you have a water powered car, and attach a hose and connect the gym shower to fuel your car, yes, you are stealing from the gym. So let's not use strawman examples to try to prove an invalid point.


Also, it's not just the president who makes the decisions. The office manager often participates on board meeting. And there is a board of directors, who vote on each silly item - like allowing someone to use a community outlet.

 

[mikeash]

Neither the president nor OP own 1/60th of the outlet. The HOA owns 100% of the outlet, which means that the HOA gets to decide how it's used.

OP and the president both own 1/60th of the HOA, but that doesn't mean they can use the HOA's resources at will. If the HOA grants them such use, then that's that. But if it doesn't, then the HOA's decision-making rules need to be followed in order to gain such a grant, not just ignored because OP owns a small share of the entity.

Questions about cost and such are irrelevant here. It's about ownership and control, and the fact that the HOA is a legally separate entity from the residents.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I'm so glad I've never had an HOA. It makes it easy to avoid such situations.