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Combined Charging System (CCS) 2.0

Discussion in 'Charging Standards and Infrastructure' started by widodh, Mar 10, 2016.

  1. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    #1 widodh, Mar 10, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2016
    Before we start: Yes, I am aware that I'm on a Tesla forum and that we all love the SuperChargers and many here think CCS is 'vaporware'. But please, can we keep the discussion on-topic regarding CCS? :)

    Recently I stumbled upon two documents regarding the development of CCS 2.0. As they have the state 'Public' I am posting them here.

    They come from The Charging Interface Initiative.

    The two documents:

    * Combined_Charging_System_1_0_Specification_V1_2_1.pdf
    * Design_Guide_Combined_Charging_System_V3_1_1.pdf

    I've been reading the documents and I found a few things which I think are of interest.

    Charging Types
    I never heard of any different way of AC charging than PWM as all the existing EVSEs out there do. But using PLC (High Level Communcation) it should also be possible to:
    * Vehicle to Grid
    * Schedule charging by the EVSE

    The last part is interesting as it allows the EVSE to regulate when which EV starts to charge rather then the user setting it in the vehicle. For Smart Grids this is very interesting.

    Now, the part I think is even more interesting is the "Payment" section.

    Charge Authorization Mode
    It is this parts which interests me most:
    We all love the free SuperChargers, but this really shows that CCS might be a good alternative. The Plug&Play way the SuperChargers work is just awesome (and it's 'free'), but this is something I didn't expect in CCS.

    CCS 2.0 is also scheduled to support 200kW charging and 350kW in the future.

    For the techies here it might be of interest to read both documents, they have some interesting information in there.
     
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  2. wjhepworth

    wjhepworth Member

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    It is very interesting reading; however, I am one of those in the minority that believes that the connectors should only focus on DC as that is what the cars really need at the end of the day. Would be great to see everyone focus on a small, lightweight standard based on DC to reduce the many (and confusing) charging scenarios. In the long run I think Tesla will continue with what they have and create a ChAdeMO type adapter that will work with these stations. I think the details behind how charging stations interoperate with backend systems would be interesting.
     
  3. mutle

    mutle Member

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    Big news, Tesla has joined CharIn, the organization developing CCS 2.0:

    CharIN e. V. welcomes member Tesla Motors
     
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  4. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    Oh, that is seriously good news!

    I really, really, really hope that Model 3 and new versions of Model S/X come with the combined port which accepts SuperCharging and CCS 2.0
     
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  5. mutle

    mutle Member

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    Agreed. And also keep compatibility with the CHAdeMO adapter for now. The more ways to charge the better and supporting multiple Standards is something no other manufacturer does in the same region.
     
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  6. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

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    Interesting indeed. I guess it would be a bit troublesome for Tesla especially in the US with the proprietary connector. If they were to heavily influence the design of CCS 2.0 and change to this port on Model 3 it would make sense to do it on MS/MX as well at least in 2017. So do they retrofit existing Superchargers with new plug and supply adapters to all current owners?
     
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  7. scaesare

    scaesare Active Member

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    Keep your friends close... and your enemies closer.
     
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  8. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

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    As I understand it, the new higher powered CCS requires higher voltage than the Supercharger supplies in order to keep the amperage down to what the CCS pins can take. Wouldn't that require reconfiguring the Tesla battery pack?
     
  9. Jeff N

    Jeff N Active Member

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    I'm not sure anyone really knows what this industry group is planning to do. They certainly have talked about a higher voltage DC connection in the future. However, the next immediate step is to introduce 150 kW support and that could just mean supporting 300A which is something Tesla already does with their proprietary plug.
     
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  10. rvdput

    rvdput CTO @Fastned

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    Fastned is already working on implementing Plug & Charge together with ABB. It requires quite some development effort, so I can't give a timeline yet. But the result should be exactly what the term suggests: plug-in your car and it will start charging.

    Increasing the charge speed of CCS will be done in two different ways. Current CCS specifications allows for 200A (so 90 kW at 425V). This will be increased to 350A and this is 150 kW at 425V. The maximum allowed voltage will be increased to 1000V to allow for charging at 350 kW.
     
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  11. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

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    Thanks for your info rvdput! Really good to have the CTO of a big charging network provider participate.

    Do you have any insight in to the possible physical plug design of CCS 2.0? Are they still thinking of having physically separate wires and plugs (individual connectors) for AC and DC or rather do like Tesla (both US and modified Mennekes type 2) where the physical plugs can be used for either AC or DC?
     
  12. rvdput

    rvdput CTO @Fastned

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    The CCS 2.0 standard will be backward compatible with the existing CCS standard. This will allow existing cars with a CCS inlet to use these new 150 kW DC fast chargers, and vice versa new vehicles supporting 150 kW can use existing 50 kW DC fast chargers as well. So to my understanding that also means the plug will remain the same (at least dimensions and pins). The communication between the vehicle and the charger is done using the AC communication pins so it is an integral part of CCS.
     
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  13. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

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    I was under the impression that 200A was the maximum current the CCS plug could handle. If they are going to increase it they'll have to have more or larger pins. I hope they don't plan on another set below the 2 DC pins at the bottom of the current plug!
     
  14. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

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    Why not? It seems with CCS the more plugs the better ;)
     
  15. Jeff N

    Jeff N Active Member

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  16. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    No, it will stay backwards compatible. No
    interesting! PhoenixContact is also a member of CharEV, so it might be that this is part of CCS 2.0
     
  17. mutle

    mutle Member

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    Yea, that makes a lot of sense. So far every CCS 1 Plug I have seen was built by Phoenix Contact, not even sure if there are others.
     
  18. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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  19. techmaven

    techmaven Active Member

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    rvdput, do you have any information that contradicts the Phoenix Contact info? Also, it isn't just on the EVSE side, but the car side also has to be cooled in order to handle > 250 A. At 250A and typical pack voltages of 300-400 volts, we're looking at 80-90 kW real world peak charging rates.
     
  20. Jeff N

    Jeff N Active Member

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    PhoenixContact does not state any vehicle-side cooling requirements.

    Do the Tesla S and X use vehicle-side active cooling of the charging socket? I don't recall seeing any evidence that they do and yet they support ~350A charging today.

    My assumption is that the charging station's active cooling of the plug's DC pin area also provides adequate cooling of the vehicle socket pins.
     

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