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Combined Charging System (CCS) 2.0

Discussion in 'Charging Standards and Infrastructure' started by widodh, Mar 10, 2016.

  1. McRat

    McRat Well-Known Member

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    That is puzzling. They list these options:

    CHAdeMO, CCS1 (SAE J1772™ Combo), CCS2 (IEC 61851-23), GB/T (20234.3-2011 DtC), pick up to 3.

    It would seem that if I were to run a network of DCFC sites, I'd want the DC Tesla cable to be an option.
     
  2. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

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    Tesla may not be willing to give them the specs.
     
  3. McRat

    McRat Well-Known Member

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    Elon said "open intellectual property" on the Tesla Motors products, IIRC.
     
  4. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    I hope Tesla will work with ChargePoint to provide the ability to directly DC charge Tesla vehicles from the Express Plus chargers. With the availability of three outputs, it would be very beneficial to have CHAdeMO, CCS1, and TSL02 all on the same station.

    Hopefully Tesla will develop a liquid cooled charging handle and deploy it to all their Superchargers and make it available to ChargePoint.
     
  5. PowerSource

    PowerSource Member

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    the specs of the supercharger are not an issue, the issue is the legalities required to use the supercharger (i.e. the proper authentication protocol and owning a vehicle that is allowed to charge on the network).

    From a technical perspective it is trivial to make a vehicle compatible. From a legal perspective that is a different ball game. There are solutions to both.
     
  6. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    I don't know if you're replying to me or not, but I'm talking about the opposite - Tesla vehicles charging on ChargePoint DCFCs. ChargePoint would need a spec for the DC charging protocol the vehicle will accept and they would need the TSL02 connector, handle and cable assembly, preferably liquid cooled. They can buy the CHAdeMO and CCS versions from vendors. There is no available vendor for the Tesla cable assemblies. The ChargePoint CEO said the same thing about the AC Tesla connectors - if they make them available, we will sell complete stations that use them.
     
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  7. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Well-Known Member

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    You are looking at it backwards, people want ChargePoint to have a TSL02 connector and directly DCFC a Tesla without an adapter. Authorization/payment would be handled via a card/app just like it is now for any ChargePoint station. And every Tesla, with the exception of a few original 40s/60s, has the DCFC/Supercharger hardware in the car active.
     
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  8. PowerSource

    PowerSource Member

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    This is a Tesla issue not a Chargepoint issue and definitely not a technical issue. YMMV
     
  9. scaesare

    scaesare Well-Known Member

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    tsl02.PNG

    Note this is NOT a DCFC station, but it, going the right direction... :)
     
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  10. TonyWilliams

    TonyWilliams Active Member

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    They don't need a liquid cooled cable for this charger. It will operate at exactly the same power as a current Supercharger with current Tesla cars.
     
  11. wdolson

    wdolson Supporting Member

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    Tesla's large pack is 400V and the small pack is 350V. I believe Porsche announced they were going to have an 800V pack on the Mission E. I doubt many cars will go above 400V, an 800V motor will help make a supercar on the drag strip, but it isn't really necessary for day to day driving.
     
  12. Bangor Bob

    Bangor Bob Member

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    Yeah, that's a reverse JESLA. Take a J1772 station and wire a Tesla HPWC output cable onto it. Apparently the Chargepoint CEO had this made up for his car at their offices.

    Given they have access to at least one Model S, odds are they've datalogged the car side of a supercharger conversation and can make one of their CCS units speak "Supercharger" to a Tesla.
     
  13. Bangor Bob

    Bangor Bob Member

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    Interestingly, the "cooled contacts" graphic in Chargepoint's slide deck is identical to the one in Phoenix Contact's brochure...
     
  14. scaesare

    scaesare Well-Known Member

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    Yup... I'd bet similarly.... and I suspect indeed that's a very likely candidate for the third cable that the chargers can support.
     
  15. Bangor Bob

    Bangor Bob Member

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    The motor inverter sends a variable AC voltage to the drive motor anyway.

    What 800V+ gets you is the potential for near-gasoline-comparable recharge times with cables and connectors mere mortals can handle, and that's a BIG deal.
     
  16. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    Personally, I am of the opinion that the Tesla connector handle and inlet are not durable enough for high traffic Supercharger stations to remain at full performance over a reasonable period of time. There is ample evidence in other threads that the handles are overheating after a couple minutes of 100kW charging and dropping to about 60kW. Tesla needs to do something to fix this situation with slowed Supercharging and I am of the opinion that cooling is the answer for both Superchargers and cables for Express Plus. That's why I worded my post that way.
     
  17. TonyWilliams

    TonyWilliams Active Member

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    I've definitely had reduced charge rates for "no obvious reason" on a Supercharger, which has always been fixed by going to the next one.

    Obviously, the Tesla handle is capable of meeting the maximum charge rate (as it does it most of the time without difficulty). As to the durability of them, that's an entirely different question... we don't know how durable the liquid cooled Phoenix Contact plug might be at 350 to 400 A, and let's be perfectly honest, Tesla is the only game in town at that power level today.

    I suspect that for any one Supercharger plug to react different than another means that something changed... something is different between the two of them. The number one source of change is likely corrosion dirt or other issues with the pins. This can happen to any plug.

    My theory on plugs in general is that they should never be allowed to hit the ground. There should also be some kind of protection for the pins (which CHAdeMO kind of does).

    As to Tesla providing liquid or other means to cool the plugs, that sounds great !!! I am clearly not opposed to that. I suspect they will do just that at some point in the future.
     
  18. TonyWilliams

    TonyWilliams Active Member

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    ChargePoint was asked by Tesla to remove the Tesla plug from their display in Las Vegas, which they have done.
     
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  19. TonyWilliams

    TonyWilliams Active Member

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    The CCS DC power pins are the same exact 9 mm diameter and design as the ones you used by CHAdeMO. Tesla has a far more intelligent design in their pins.

    I suspect that an order for the 9 mm straight pin to even handle 350A to 400A absolutely required liquid cooling!

    I also suspect that there is currently only one manufacture actually making these plans at the moment. German manufacturer REMA was the company building almost all the CCS plugs previously, and I can tell you what a fantastic job they didn't do with their J1772 plug and cable assemblies.
     
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