I thought these comments were interesting, all from Carlos Ghosn, CEO of Renault-Nissan in the last 3-4 weeks.
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Comments from Renault-Nissan CEO
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doctorwho
Active Member
Renault has a lot of money invested in diesels. It'll cost them plenty of time and money to change the company direction.
scottf200
Well-Known Member
Electric700
Active Member
That's an oxymoron. Electric vehicles, especially when they have the backing of something like the Supercharger network, are better choices than diesels.
scottf200
Well-Known Member
scottf200
Well-Known Member
Chevrolet sells a LOT of Cruzes. Not sure how many of the diesels they are selling.
artsci
Sponsor
Yes, and one that cheats on the real emissions. It appears they're all cheaters and they want government to let them off the hook, which they no doubt will. Cowards.
The Cruze probably isn't a great example of an American diesel, it's a Korean designed car with a European diesel engine. The fact the diesel option wasn't even available in the US until last year is testament to that.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
The Cruze was designed by GM. GM is a global company. GM Korea,formally Daewoo, took the lead but GM Germany Opel also had input as well as GM Detroit. GM Italy designed the diesel but is manufactured by Opel in Germany.
VW was/is an example of a company that makes all the material decisions at its global headquarters.
With urea injection device system Cruze diesel starts at ~$4k more than a Jetta diesel. The take rate for diesel in the Cruze is about 2% in the USA or ~ 5500 sales per year.
VW was/is an example of a company that makes all the material decisions at its global headquarters.
With urea injection device system Cruze diesel starts at ~$4k more than a Jetta diesel. The take rate for diesel in the Cruze is about 2% in the USA or ~ 5500 sales per year.
Mr. Ghosn is an Auto industry CEO. His opinions on the future of self driving are suspect. Think of it this way. How much did any top rairoad executives in the twenties understand about commercial aviation? His industry is ill equipped to lead the way to the future. They have outsourced virtually everything but sales, marketing and engine manufacturing. GM, for example had no electrical engineers working for them at all in 2013. A lot of car companies are going to fail or merge. The industry is suffering from overcapacity. Of the ones that survive, many may end up being vendors to new advanced, self driving vehicle companies. Self driving ICE vehicles are at a significant dissadvantage to EV's due to complexity, regular maintenance and the risk of leaking fuel. Here's a stat on that from the NFPA:
U.S. fire departments responded to an estimated average of 152,300 automobile fires per year in 2006-2010.
Self driving is not the same as full autonomy. The real safety benefit comes when the driver is completely out of the loop at all times. That's won't be possible for at least a few years.
It is very hard to build a car, but that won't stop companies like Tesla, the chinese, Google, Apple or others from trying and some willl succeed.
U.S. fire departments responded to an estimated average of 152,300 automobile fires per year in 2006-2010.
Self driving is not the same as full autonomy. The real safety benefit comes when the driver is completely out of the loop at all times. That's won't be possible for at least a few years.
It is very hard to build a car, but that won't stop companies like Tesla, the chinese, Google, Apple or others from trying and some willl succeed.
AustinPowers
Total Smeghead
Mr. Ghosn has some strange arguments (or lack thereof) in his statements.
While I agree that many Diesel engines designed and made by European carmakers might be superior to many of the Diesel engines designed and made by US carmakers, I don't think that indicates to the fact that the US is trying to pick on VW just to protect its own supposedly inferior Diesel tech. Why? Well, basically because Diesel engines don't play an important part in the US anyway. And secondly because this time, the US have every right to pick on VW.
I am German, I have driven several VWs and even now we have a Touran Diesel as our family minivan, but even though I might have every reason to be VW biased, I am not. On the contrary, I firmly believe that what VW has done is absolutely disgusting. Our Touran also has one of the affected engines, and especially as we bought it (the Bluemotion variant) specifically for its supposedly eco-friendlyness and good fuel-consumption (and payed extra money for that "Bluemotion tech" package), I am very angry. Granted, the fuel consumption of our Touran is very good, but knowing that the emissions are far worse in reality to what was promised is disconcerting to say the least.
Therefor, shame on VW, and shame on Mr Ghosn for his idiotic remarks. Of course, he is trying to protect his company, but he should rather do that by making sure that the Leaf and all of Renaults BEV models continue to improve in order to be attractive in the market and help foster sustainable transportation. At least Renault/Nissan has some great offerings to start with. Opel for example has just launched the new Astra (main VW Golf "opponent" over here) with loads of tech, but no BEV (or even PHEV) variant in sight.
While I agree that many Diesel engines designed and made by European carmakers might be superior to many of the Diesel engines designed and made by US carmakers, I don't think that indicates to the fact that the US is trying to pick on VW just to protect its own supposedly inferior Diesel tech. Why? Well, basically because Diesel engines don't play an important part in the US anyway. And secondly because this time, the US have every right to pick on VW.
I am German, I have driven several VWs and even now we have a Touran Diesel as our family minivan, but even though I might have every reason to be VW biased, I am not. On the contrary, I firmly believe that what VW has done is absolutely disgusting. Our Touran also has one of the affected engines, and especially as we bought it (the Bluemotion variant) specifically for its supposedly eco-friendlyness and good fuel-consumption (and payed extra money for that "Bluemotion tech" package), I am very angry. Granted, the fuel consumption of our Touran is very good, but knowing that the emissions are far worse in reality to what was promised is disconcerting to say the least.
Therefor, shame on VW, and shame on Mr Ghosn for his idiotic remarks. Of course, he is trying to protect his company, but he should rather do that by making sure that the Leaf and all of Renaults BEV models continue to improve in order to be attractive in the market and help foster sustainable transportation. At least Renault/Nissan has some great offerings to start with. Opel for example has just launched the new Astra (main VW Golf "opponent" over here) with loads of tech, but no BEV (or even PHEV) variant in sight.
felixtb
RsEU502,Sp+14274,XpEUSig4
+1 and I think we might be even more disheartened here in Europe than in the US because we feel completely cheated by our own..... VW has a MASSIVE marketshare in Europe and you feel really sorry for the owners (including my self) of now basically worthless cars, as the governments are beginning to put up barriers for the re-sale of the affected cars.
/fb
AustinPowers
Total Smeghead
Well, I wouldn't exactly say worthless, especially as they are now going to be "upgraded" for free by VW in order to finally comply with the standards they were supposed to comply with in the first place.
But your argument of "feeling cheated by one of our own" really hits a home run. VW has always had an image of great cars and great integrity, plus being very eco-minded.
I think part of that image is still valid, but it has taken a huge blow, especially internationally, by Dieselgate. I mean, I still think the e-Golf is the best BEV as far as value-for-money is concerned, and tech-wise only inferior to Tesla's cars. VW has many great offerings, and apart from the emissions, their TDI engines are by my own experience some of the best Diesel engines on the market. But cheating is just plain wrong. If - as is reported - that specific generation of Diesel engines wasn't able to meet the emissions requirements in the development budget they had available, they should have just allowed for a bigger budget or not released that engine at all. Simple as that.
brucet999
Active Member
I don't think the ADAC quote indicates cheating in the VW sense, but that the European rules allow qualification before production begins using a specially prepared & stripped down car with door seams taped and seats and accessories removed to reduce weight.
AustinPowers
Total Smeghead
It goes far beyond that. The rules allow lots of unrealistic modifications. Those that you mentioned, plus things like door mirrors taken off, tires inflated to crazy high pressures, air intakes taped as well, and of course special engine software settings that would never be used under normal driving conditions. Mind you, that is not the same as the software used by VW, just so-called "optimization" of engine parameters within the limits allowed by the rules.
Conclusion: get rid of those rules immediately and make new ones that force manufacturers to adhere to realistic driving parameters, unchanged production-equal vehicles. Oh and for a novel idea, take the measurements while driving on real roads under normal traffic conditions.
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