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Commercial Crew Transportation Capability (CCtCap) SpaceX and Boeing developments

Discussion in 'SpaceX' started by Grendal, May 12, 2016.

  1. Grendal

    Grendal Active Member

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  2. GoTslaGo

    GoTslaGo Learning Member

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    Thanks for the post!

    I'm a little confused by the article. The original design for the Starliner was the Challenger space shuttle?
     
  3. ggr

    ggr Roadster R80 537, SigS P85 29

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    I think you misunderstood. STA just means a test article that is the same size and shape etc. as the real thing, so that you can test tooling and handling procedures. There was an STA for the space shuttle series, and that STA eventually was re-manufactured to become Challenger.

    Now there's an STA for the Starliner. But the design dates back more to Apollo than the Space Shuttle.

    (I guess I can talk now: on a visit to Fremont about a year ago, I saw a rough cardboard mock-up of a Model X that they used to make sure it would go around all the bends of the production line without hitting anything. Sort of a low-tech STA.)
     
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  4. GoTslaGo

    GoTslaGo Learning Member

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    Thanks! That makes more sense!
     
  5. glhs272

    glhs272 Unnamed plug faced villian

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    Disappointing... Looks like we will be seeing more $$$ going to Soyuz flights. Nothing against the Russians, but it would be nice to see the US going back to a barter arrangement (we fly a Russian Cosmonaut on one flight, they fly a US astronaut on Soyuz). Until we get to direct handover anyway, if that ever happens. That would require two US vehicles docked simultaneously.

    On a side note, there were rumors of SpaceX or Boeing objecting to flying Russian cosmonauts on their vehicles. I think NASA should put it's foot down and make them fly cosmonauts. Anything less would be an unprovoked snub to the other ISS partners (Russia) who have been single handedly keeping the ISS manned for the last 5 years.
     
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  6. Grendal

    Grendal Active Member

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    NASA has contracted through 2019 for Soyuz flights. They anticipated delays and did not want to get stuck with no way of getting someone up there.

    The Russian government might be acting badly but that does not change the fact that they have been very good in this area and in selling boosters to ULA and other American companies. So I agree that their cosmonauts should get rides as needed.
     
  7. Nikxice

    Nikxice Member

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    From a SpaceX perspective, this news is far from disappointing. In this post Space Shuttle era, the first U. S. company to put an American crew in orbit will and receive a lots of press and goodwill. Even more so if that company turns out to be the upstart SpaceX instead of the old guard Boeing. I'm sure none of this is lost on an extremely competitive Elon Musk.
     
  8. Grendal

    Grendal Active Member

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  9. GoTslaGo

    GoTslaGo Learning Member

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    Guess I'm not going into space anytime soon. That spacesuit is way TOO skinny! :p
     
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  10. Grendal

    Grendal Active Member

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    And SpaceX gets official word that they are a "go."

    NASA orders first crewed SpaceX mission to ISS -

    SpaceX still must meet their milestones. NASA appears to be assuming that all will go well and SpaceX is showing the proper pacing for the future launch.
     
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  11. oneday

    oneday Member

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    From that article, "In September 2014, NASA signed a $2.6 billion contract with SpaceX and a $4.2 billion contract with Boeing to transport astronauts to the ISS starting in late 2017."

    I'm curious if anyone can enlighten me as to why the Boeing contract is more than 50% larger than SpaceX's?
     
  12. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    Because NASA wanted more than one company to rely on to deliver cargo to the ISS, Boeing said it could do it but it would cost $4.2 billion, and Boeing has powerful supporters in Washington DC.
     
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  13. Grendal

    Grendal Active Member

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    It's what SpaceX and Boeing requested. This is just proof that SpaceX is a lot less expensive than an old school contractor. It should be noted that both companies are doing the exact same things for the contracted amounts. SpaceX is just that much less expensive than Boeing.

    Ha. Beat me to it. :) Though we do have slightly different information.
     
  14. oneday

    oneday Member

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    Got it. I figured as much...
     
  15. Grendal

    Grendal Active Member

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    #15 Grendal, Aug 1, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2016
  16. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Grendal. So based on that chart, it appears that SpaceX is way ahead of Boeing in getting people to the ISS, correct? It shows SpaceX doing the first crewed flight to the ISS in August 2017. I don't see anything like that in the Boeing Milestones shown. Am I missing it amidst that sea of acronyms? :D
     
  17. adiggs

    adiggs Active Member

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    I followed through the required milestones in the chart - those are the ones that appear to be in common between the two.

    Looks like Boeing / ULA gets to DCR (dunno what that is) first by 3 months.

    Then Boeing is about 8-10 months behind on the remaining 3 required milestones.


    Somebody's posted an article awhile back where even the article was skeptical of ULA milestones and plan for getting crewed travel into space. People in the comments were brutal, with numerous commenters saying something like "just because you wrote it down in a plan, doesn't mean it's going to happen". While the SpaceX plan looks at least vaguely feasible, the ULA plan looked to numerous of those commenters like something that will slip years (instead of months) from the scheduled plan, with a reasonable likelihood of never delivering a passenger.

    Wish I had that earlier article at hand.
     
  18. Grendal

    Grendal Active Member

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  19. Grendal

    Grendal Active Member

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    #19 Grendal, Aug 1, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2016
    In reading comments on articles from people that seem a lot more clued in than I am, then the answer is Boeing is likely to be very late. Personally, I expect the competition from SpaceX will light a fire under them to be as close as possible to be on time. Without SpaceX, I'd expect they'd be very very late and demanding more money. The problem for Boeing is that they are making each CST-100 individually. They are using the old school communications that Dan Rasky described in his NASA/SpaceX videos which drag everything down.

    From what I've read, SpaceX is making 4 Dragon 2's right now. That is two for testing, one for the unmanned mission, and one for the first demonstration crewed mission. This is not an Elon schedule. Dragon 2 will likely be delayed a few more months for the crewed mission according to most commenters but should be on time for all the rest.

     
  20. Grendal

    Grendal Active Member

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    SpaceX was delayed because of the CRS-7 failure. Boeing is delayed because they are slow at getting things done.

    Boeing's capsule will get to the ISS. It might be delayed some more according to everything I've read, but I can't imagine them allowing an upstart launch company to show them up too much. There was an article recently about the GAO trashing Boeing's schedule.

    It’s Crunch Time for Commercial Crew: Serious Challenges Lay Ahead at Parabolic Arc
     

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